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  • March 28, 2024, 11:28:14 AM

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Author Topic: 1985 Eagle Solenoid location?  (Read 5638 times)

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Offline Longhunter

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1985 Eagle Solenoid location?
« on: July 02, 2020, 02:37:59 PM »
Does anyone have a picture or can tell me where the solenoid is located on the '85 Eagle? Mine will not start and I am not home. I am trying to have my wife check things. We just this Eagle a few days ago. My daughter drove it from CA to TX and it always started. Now it will not. Wife took the battery in and they said it was toast. Got a new battery installed but still will not start.

is the solenoid on this model on the started or on a fender or elsewhere. I checked the epedia but could not find it.

Thank you.

Offline Still Pat

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Re: 1985 Eagle Solenoid location?
« Reply #1 on: July 02, 2020, 03:03:53 PM »
Should be on the fender. Follow your positive battery cable, solenoid should be where it connects.
'83 AMC Eagle wagon 258/auto.
'84 AMC Eagle sedan (4 door) 258/auto.
PREVIOUS AMCs:
'72 Gremlin X 304/3 speed
'81 Eagle Kammback 258/4 speed (Purchased new)
'82 Eagle wagon 258/5 speed (Ordered new, traded Kammback)
'86 (I THINK) Eagle wagon - BlackBird 258/auto. (Got hit/totaled)
'83 Eagle wagon - White Eagle 258-auto. (Front subframe was rotted out - sold for parts)

Offline Canoe

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Re: 1985 Eagle Solenoid location?
« Reply #2 on: July 02, 2020, 04:37:55 PM »
on the right side of vehicle (left in image) rear of battery forward of strut

There are so many things that may be preventing it from starting, including but not limited to: ignition switch, starter solenoid, starter, battery, any/all connections, etc..
Without knowing how capable the people there are, it's difficult to starting listing all of the things and ways of testing. Like does the starter solenoid click or not. If it does, does the starter click, sit clicking or is silent. What does it do if you jumper a wire from the battery positive to touch the starter positive drive cable on the solenoid, to see if the starter turns and engages. If someone isn't familiar with these and other things (as simple as having the engine turning/running with the hood up) they can get hurt.
« Last Edit: July 02, 2020, 04:46:40 PM by Canoe »

Offline mudkicker715

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Re: 1985 Eagle Solenoid location?
« Reply #3 on: July 02, 2020, 04:54:27 PM »
just incase you wanted to check if that is the problem, you could jump the 2 big terminals with a pair of wrenches.
make certain car is in park, maybe push on it to be certain. than key in engine run position. than just short out the solenoid with the 2 wrenches touching the big terminals. be prepared for sparky scary things however. if the car works at starting that way, you found the solenoid to be junk. if not and certain the wrenches are making good contact maybe the starter is suspect. could be corrosion somewhere.
« Last Edit: July 02, 2020, 05:23:14 PM by mudkicker715 »



Manitowoc WI

Offline Taylor

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Re: 1985 Eagle Solenoid location?
« Reply #4 on: July 02, 2020, 05:10:52 PM »
Ditto on what mudkicker715 said, also check the fuseable links. If I recall they are all connected to the solenoid too.
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Offline Longhunter

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Re: 1985 Eagle Solenoid location?
« Reply #5 on: July 02, 2020, 05:35:04 PM »
New battery on it and it was turning over. Not flooded and all sounded good over video chat. Starter was doing its thing as was new battery. Since I am still in Syria and she is no mechanic I had them take it to the shop. We have free roadside assistance, (even in the driveway) so she had a wrecker come and try to start it. He could not get it to start either. So he took it to the shop.

What is strange is that my daughter and her boyfriend just drove it from CA to TX and parked it in the drive. Now it will not start and Walmart said the battery was bad.

What I do know is the wife was unfamiliar with pushing down on the "key lock lever" (not sure if that is the correct name) on the steering column to get the ignition switch to the fully locked position. So after she turned it off the same day my daughter brought it in it sat overnight in that key position. With it not being fully locked and key out. So maybe there was a constant current that killed the battery and perhaps killed something else at the same time.

The things I do know are the battery and starter are functioning. Not sure about the solenoid, coil or anything else. I guess the shop will let me know.

Since I have not seen the car yet it is hard for me to know what is going on. But I have a question. On what I think is the solenoid wife says there are "things" that she can switch from one position to another. I think she said there were two of them. What I think is the solenoid is on the left fender next to the battery and that is what has these switches on it.  Any ideas? Could her switching those from one position to another do anything bad? Could that be the cause of it not starting?

Offline Mitch

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Re: 1985 Eagle Solenoid location?
« Reply #6 on: July 02, 2020, 06:56:57 PM »
On what I think is the solenoid wife says there are "things" that she can switch from one position to another. I think she said there were two of them. What I think is the solenoid is on the left fender next to the battery and that is what has these switches on it.  Any ideas? Could her switching those from one position to another do anything bad? Could that be the cause of it not starting?

Yes, they are wires with connectors on them and they need to be in their proper place. I'm not near my Eagle so I can't tell you which colour goes where.

Online vangremlin

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Re: 1985 Eagle Solenoid location?
« Reply #7 on: July 02, 2020, 07:02:15 PM »
There are no switches on the solenoid.  There are wires large wires on it that are held in place on two posts with nuts, and two (?) other small wires that push on to two small posts.  You can't switch the large wires without some effort and some unfortunate results.  Let the shop troubleshoot the problem and hopefully they will come up with an answer.  Hard for you to trouble shoot from 10,000 miles away!!
1981 Kammback 258 - "Pepe"
1980 Coupe 258 - "Ginger
1972 Gremlin X 304
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Offline Mitch

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Re: 1985 Eagle Solenoid location?
« Reply #8 on: July 02, 2020, 07:16:28 PM »
On what I think is the solenoid wife says there are "things" that she can switch from one position to another. I think she said there were two of them. Could her switching those from one position to another do anything bad? Could that be the cause of it not starting?

There are no switches on the solenoid. 

Pretty sure she means the wires/connectors on top of the solenoid which need to be on the correct terminal.

Offline Canoe

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Re: 1985 Eagle Solenoid location?
« Reply #9 on: July 02, 2020, 07:33:52 PM »
On what I think is the solenoid wife says there are "things" that she can switch from one position to another. I think she said there were two of them. Could her switching those from one position to another do anything bad? Could that be the cause of it not starting?
Pretty sure she means the wires/connectors on top of the solenoid which need to be on the correct terminal.
Yup.
The blades on the threaded terminals for the wire connectors to slide onto.
Check the diagram in the Eaglepedia
http://amceaglesden.com/guide/1F_-_Starting_Systems 
see 1F-15 (Note the solenoid is different for auto vs manual transmissions)
Problem if someone switched them around...

Your daughter had a died while driving issue, that resolved with some driving around. There can be a question of how much charge the battery is getting, with electrical connections that may benefit from being lossened then re-tightened to get a solid connection. The most common won't-start is the battery dosn't have a charge. It's pretty common that the ignition key will come out of the cylinder without turning the power off. My two eagles only ever needed the key to get it out of locked.
I hate not being where something is taking place. No way to tell if Walmart decided the battery didn't have a charge or if it couldn't take/hold a charge...

Offline amcfool1

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Re: 1985 Eagle Solenoid location?
« Reply #10 on: July 02, 2020, 11:37:26 PM »
hi, could neutral safety switch, good luck, gz

Offline Longhunter

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Re: 1985 Eagle Solenoid location?
« Reply #11 on: July 03, 2020, 12:30:26 PM »
OK. So this is a really bad picture but it shows the box my wife was talking about that had switches on it. Tp the left of the battery you can see about half of the box and one of the red switches. After looking at the picture Canoe sent I can definitely say it is not the solenoid.

She is going now to get a better picture. I am having her point it out to the mechanic in case it has something to do with keeping the car from starting.

Any ideas? I am thinking it is aftermarket something or another.

Offline Longhunter

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Re: 1985 Eagle Solenoid location?
« Reply #12 on: July 03, 2020, 04:54:29 PM »
OK, so the wife got some good pictures of the "box" that I have no idea what it is. In the pictures the black box next to/behind the battery with the two red switches. It looks to be wired into the harness.

Anyone know what this is and could the switches having been switched cause the car to not start?

The PO did say the AC had been converted to the "new Freon", I think it is R134A maybe. But other than that did not mention any other modifications.

Thank you again for all the help for this non-mechanic.

Have a great 4th of July, American Independence Day
« Last Edit: July 03, 2020, 04:56:14 PM by Longhunter »

Offline Mitch

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Re: 1985 Eagle Solenoid location?
« Reply #13 on: July 03, 2020, 05:18:25 PM »
Wow, I've never seen that box before. I seriously thought she was referring to the wires on the solenoid which can be "switched", meaning to "switch" one for the other.

Can you trace where the loom goes? That's a lot of wires.

Offline Canoe

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Re: 1985 Eagle Solenoid location?
« Reply #14 on: July 03, 2020, 06:47:28 PM »
wow
looks like a DIY unicorn.

The top of the box appears to have to marks scratched on it labelled Top and Bottom.
I'd GUESS that the top switch should be aligned with the Top mark and the bottom switch aligned with the Bottom mark. And they appear to be set to such.

It may be a "simple" switch that switches between using the MCU to time the spark vs the dizzy runs the ignition module directly?

Might that box contain a replacement or partial replacement of the MCU or some of its functions?

That's a very good attempt at photos to show the box and it's wires. But you need to trace where each sub-bundle goes, and then where each wires attaches, and then whatever happens inside that box...
It may be a bit much to ask for shots that trace all of the bundles going to/from that unicorn box, from the box to wherever they go.

As no one has touched them yet, and it drove there, I'd be leaving that box out of immediate investigation. I'd go to the TSM and follow the trouble shooting guide. Well, not true. First I'd be checking that all eletrical connections are good (loosen & tighten, each in turn, NOT all at once), and a jumper from the battery to starter cable to ensure the starter does engage and turn. And I'd be checking the position of the trans selector for starting in Park and Neutral, but not in Reverse or Drive; I had that issue on my '81 where the selector rod to the trans control attachment was mis-adjusted.

A shot showing the wires going to the dizzy and a shot showing the wires going to the coil could be useful. Also any boxes that may be connected to the wires going to the coil.
« Last Edit: July 03, 2020, 06:59:10 PM by Canoe »

Offline Canoe

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Re: 1985 Eagle Solenoid location?
« Reply #15 on: July 03, 2020, 08:30:28 PM »
I wonder if there's space in that unicorn-box for all those wires, switches and a GM HEI Ignition Module?

I know I emptied a stock AMC Ignition Module box and mounted a GM HEI Ignition Module inside there.

Offline Taylor

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Re: 1985 Eagle Solenoid location?
« Reply #16 on: July 03, 2020, 11:14:09 PM »
Definitely looks like a prior owner has done a little problematic customization. This might help.
2010 Toyota Rav4 pack mule
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Offline Longhunter

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Re: 1985 Eagle Solenoid location?
« Reply #17 on: July 16, 2020, 04:40:52 AM »
UPDATE:
 All, Spouse had Eagle towed to repair shop. They also had no idea what the "switch box" was. They guessed it was some sort of "additional" starting, cranking, system. But truly had no idea. What they did was attempt to start car by bypassing the box. Car started right up and is running great. I had them totally remove the box and return the harness to factory configuration.

Now with it running they were able to get it able to pass Texas inspection. Horn needed relay and license plate light needed bulb. Had to adjust emergency brake as it was not holding car in place. Other than those small items it is good to go and wife passed inspection yesterday. 

Bad news, but to be expected. I was able to video chat with mechanic from here in Syria while he had car on lift. SERIOUS leaks in several places in engine. Everytime she parks it somewhere they is definite oil leak on the ground pavement when she moves it. Definitely needs rear main seal and other engine seals??, valve cover is missing a bolt and has warped out so the hole no longer lines up with head. Mechanic is afraid to torgue the plastic cover too much as he thinks it is too brittle and will break.
Same type issues with transmission, leaking badly. Also showed me same issue with transfer case and plastic boots around brake parts (I am not a mechanic so not sure what they are called) need replacing as they appear to have dry rotted.

So here are some questions:
1. Car has 160,000 on it. I am contemplating having the engine and transmission taken out and rebuilt as well as the other things that need repair. Is this something that makes sense at this point or should I just fix current leaks and then fix things as they break?

I ask because I am thinking it is better to just fix everything now and hopefully have no worries in the future. I figure if I make it all "new" again then the car will outlive me. I am concerned about being out somewhere and an old part, leak give out and then I am stranded. Not to say a new rebuild would not do that but a lot less chance.

Thank you for advice.


Offline Canoe

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Re: 1985 Eagle Solenoid location?
« Reply #18 on: July 16, 2020, 07:38:33 PM »
For any "rebuild", wait until you're back.

For the rear seal, there was one mechanic here where I live that claimed you could do that by lifting the car, supporting the transfer-case and trans, separate the trans from engine, then fish the old seal out with a coat-hanger, then lube the new seal with fresh engine oil and slide it in.

It's also common, and a pain, to replace the oil pan gaskets. Plural. But it's an opportunity to clean it out and to put a new oil pump in (before that fails) since you're there. Done right it should last. Needing redoing at 160K is not a surprise. There are better gaskets now for that too.

Those stock valve covers do become brittle and break. To get a stock one in place, you need the Felpro double-thick cork gasket. Then gasket adhesive on the bottom of the gasket and then for the top, either gasket adhesive if the channel on the valve cover is good, or a TINY bit of RTV gasket maker if it's not. You use minimal torque to put the valve cover on. Leave the RTV to set, then add a bit more torque. That was the solution 15 years ago: search the forum for other's advice on handling that. I had trouble after trouble until I went with the double-thick cork gasket (don't use two stacked...). An aluminum cover is nice, if you can get one for a reasonable price. I made my own steel one... lol

If the rubber boots at the brake pistons in the rear drum brakes and the front calipers are dry but intact, they can often be refurbished in place by rubbing with "ATE Brake Cylinder" lube/grease. First use some to lube the rubber to wipe any dirt off, then a clean coating of that left in place to lube.

If you ever pull the calipers to rebuild them, you use that grease on the pistons before you put them back into the calipers (astounding the difference in brake feel, compared to using the Permatex product for that). If you found any rust inside the calipers, use some EVAPO-RUST to remove the rust, rinse well, wipe dry, let sit until thoroughly dry. Paint with that ceramic brake paint caliper paint, cure, then rub a light coating of the ATE B.C. grease all over the inside and into the feed and bleed channels of the caliper, so they can't rust again.

I'd use the ATE Brake Cylinder lube/grease on any rubber with issues on the TC too.

You had the trans filter & fluid changed. I'd wait and see if it has any issues.

Rebuilding the stock 258 sounds nice, but putting a 4.0 head on it is a better upgrade. Even better, is putting a whole 4.0 in, so you get the fuel injected throttle body. There's a flange on the 4.0 block that will take the Eagle front diff mount. As long as the stock engine is running and not having problems, I'd say wait until you're back and put more research into it.

With a bent/warped valve cover, if you can't find an aluminum one cheap, if it's not leaking a lot, you should be able to have it limp along until you're home.

Offline Canoe

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Re: 1985 Eagle Solenoid location?
« Reply #19 on: July 18, 2020, 09:28:37 AM »
...
Those stock valve covers do become brittle and break. ... An aluminum cover is nice, if you can get one for a reasonable price. ...
http://amceaglesden.com/guide/How_To_Upgrade_Your_Valve_Cover

Offline Canoe

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Re: 1985 Eagle Solenoid location?
« Reply #20 on: July 18, 2020, 01:03:07 PM »
...
If the rubber boots at the brake pistons in the rear drum brakes and the front calipers are dry but intact, they can often be refurbished in place by rubbing with "ATE Brake Cylinder" lube/grease. First use some to lube the rubber to wipe any dirt off, then a clean coating of that left in place to lube.

If you ever pull the calipers to rebuild them, you use that grease on the pistons before you put them back into the calipers (astounding the difference in brake feel, compared to using the Permatex product for that). If you found any rust inside the calipers, first use some EVAPO-RUST to remove the rust, rinse well, wipe dry, let sit until thoroughly dry. Paint with that ceramic brake paint caliper paint, cure, then rub a light coating of the ATE B.C. grease all over the inside and into the feed and bleed channels of the caliper, so they can't rust again.


Quote
ATE brake cylinder paste is used for repair, assembly and conservation of hydraulic brake components It is applied thinly and evenly to cylinder sleeves, pistons and seals
https://www.ate-info.de/en/details/produkte/ate-bremszylinder-paste-180-ml
This is what many European vehicle manufacteurs specify for their brakes.
I also use this anywhere I have rubber to refurbish or protect.

ATE Brake Cylinder ASSEMBLY PASTE
https://www.ebay.com/itm/ATE-Brake-Cylinder-ASSEMBLY-PASTE-BRAKE-RUBBER-GREASE-LUBE-180g-BREMSZYLINDER-/322804745197

https://forums.amceaglesden.com/index.php?topic=36545.msg294175#msg294175

The Permatex product for brake cylinders dries to like sticky molases in comparison.

 

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