Author Topic: Modified Vacuum line diagram for the 258 (Read 61978 times)

Bird-o-Prey · « **on:** October 02, 2006, 11:54:04 PM »

OK, we have all asked about it but finally, here it is for everyone to see. I spent more than a couple of days working this one out. All of the emissions equipment is gone

. All that remains are the essential systems.

Brake Booster
EGR valve
Sole-vac
Distributor advance
4x4 vacuum
PCV & Fuel cannister
Choke (on mine)

Also, I have the TVS & TAC Vac. motor in the air cleaner cove connected. I hope this helps every one out there who may be in the same boat I was. Also, I hope it helps those of you doing EXTENDED bench testing of their pollution / emissions equipment. I have set my car up like this and I also test ran it and boy is it ever smooooooth now! This worked for me, but I don't suggest you should go out blindly and start ripping out components. Remember the old axiom..."If it ain't broke, DON'T fix it"!!!

mccastlej · « **Reply #1 on:** October 03, 2006, 12:29:18 AM »

Thanks a bunch! I am going to try to tackle this myself tomorrow, and now you've made it a whole lot easier for me to do! I'm not sure if I'm going to hook up the tac vac motor though.

Bird-o-Prey · « **Reply #2 on:** October 03, 2006, 12:43:21 AM »

It was there and it does perform a useful service if you live in a part of the worl where it can get cold out. Especially in winter.

mccastlej · « **Reply #3 on:** October 03, 2006, 12:47:21 AM »

You have a good point there as I do live in Michigan. I have two different things in the same area as the tac vac motor. I'll guess I'll have to look a bit better, and see what the deal is?

Bird-o-Prey · « **Reply #4 on:** October 03, 2006, 12:50:05 AM »

Most of the vacuum diagrams in the TSM show 2(?) TAC Vac motors. My air cleaner cover only had one, so that's how my diagram came out. I expect it wouldn't be too hard to plumb in the other one shown in the TSM. Just splice in the line where it looks appropriate and works best.

IowaEagle · « **Reply #5 on:** October 03, 2006, 08:48:47 AM »

One of mine is wired open. Think it is the front one that restricts air intake when warming up? Thanks a bunch for this Bird-O-Prey. Now to remember to get it in the Eaglepedia too.

trapperjack · « **Reply #6 on:** October 03, 2006, 06:57:27 PM »

Great job. Wish this had been there when I started my "bench testing". I'm goigng to see how what I ended up with compares to this. Did you do ECM Test yet?
trapperjack

Bird-o-Prey · « **Reply #7 on:** October 03, 2006, 07:19:10 PM »

I still have some electrical issues to look into. There is a little doo-hickey next to the TVS which is supposed to connect to the computer (and in my car, does not). Also, I have some other wires that dont seem to be connected to anything. However, the car does seem to run better, and I will be giving it a full tune up before I run it through the emissions test.

IowaEagle · « **Reply #8 on:** October 03, 2006, 07:38:24 PM »

Let us know what you get for readiings. That should be interesting.

hojorisin · « **Reply #9 on:** October 04, 2006, 12:50:03 AM »

Of the Eagles I have that have two vac motors on snorkel : the one closer to inside/air cleaner is to shut off air intake completely (it overrides the front / pre heat one) w/car off; this is to prevent run-on/dieseling; I also have wired one of these full open (bad motor) ; you should still use the heat one tho--great in winter

Bird-o-Prey · « **Reply #10 on:** October 04, 2006, 03:25:50 PM »

After much Futzing about with the lines untill 1 am, I managed to get the 4wd shift motors re-connected properly. However, the road test was less than spectacular. When I shift in & out of 4wd, I once again get the little wheeze from the switch that lets me know things are working. I shifted in to 4x4 mode and the ride that had previously been choppy, had smoothed out (ditto for the ride in 2wd). However... During my test run, as I was slowing down to make a turn, I heard the most peculiar buzzing/grinding sound, and the beasty was back to shuddering and bouncing along again. I still get the wheeze from behind the switch, but the car won't stay fully engaged in either driving mode! The lesson here...if it ain't broke, don't fix it!!! I just had to clean off the grease/oil/dirt/accumulated crud to make it all look better, didn't I? I suspect that my cleaning has revealed a hitherto sealed leak in one (or both) of the vacuum shift motors. Now where did I put that diagram for modifying my shift motors to be cable actuated...hmmm??

ozzman104 · « **Reply #11 on:** October 08, 2006, 06:41:38 PM »

Well, I just got done redoing my vacuum lines using this diagram. The mess of unnecessary lines I took out was amazing. oh yeah... and the wagon runs great now.... especially for a $300 that they were going to scrap because of a leaking fuel tank.

IowaEagle · « **Reply #12 on:** October 08, 2006, 07:11:27 PM »

GREAT! Another satisfied AMC Eagle Nest Member. Now I need to do the same.

trapperjack · « **Reply #13 on:** October 16, 2006, 10:03:15 PM »

Any updates, Bird-O-Prey? how's she running?

mccastlej · « **Reply #14 on:** October 16, 2006, 11:00:20 PM »

from what I could tell, the control solenoid for the Sol-Vac still needs to be connected, otherwise the sol-vac will be extended all the time?

Bird-o-Prey · « **Reply #15 on:** October 16, 2006, 11:25:07 PM »

Furstratingly, I have not had much chance to run the car since the plumbing job. I have been re-wiring the hack job the previous owner made of the wiring system in the cab & replacing the dash as well. Also, the power steering puked all over the garage floor, and I just got the new hoses today and I still have to pull the pump from my parts car. While I had it running, the ride had smoothed out greatly and the sputtering has all but dissapeared! I need to look int cleaning the carb jets out and properly adjusting the timing, although I believe I will give it the TFI upgrade before I do that. I will keep you all posted. Also, If anyone else has anything to add to the vacuum diagram, just post it here or PM me and I'll test it out and add it to the diagram if it works out. However, I believe I got all the major systems covered.

Cheers

BenM · « **Reply #16 on:** October 19, 2006, 09:51:14 PM »

I have a different style CTO with just one pair of fittings. I have the EGR valve just through it and it's off your capped fitting. That's the "Emissions" fitting on the carb. It's a ported vacuum. I have the canister through the TVS also off of that port.

Run your dist. off of its own vacuum port to avoid leak-down problems off of an accessory. Since it's sensitive to vacuum, I recommend one off of the base or off of the manifold near the carb.

All accessories can be grouped together. Leave your Sol-Vac disconnected if you don't have the solenoid. mccastlej is right about it being extended all the time.

Bird-o-Prey · « **Reply #17 on:** October 20, 2006, 01:06:29 AM »

I had noticed that there were several different CTO configurations in the TSM. I did make the caveat that this was for an '82 Canadian Eagle with the Carter BBD. Also, I noticed in the TSM that different ports were used on different engine configurations depending on where the car was built for. Mostly what I wanted to do here was not to make a definitive vacuum diagram, but just to show how the basics can be routed fairly simply with the removal of all the pollution controls. The idea for running the distributor off it's own vacuum line is a good one because the more connections added to a line the greater the chance to have a failure somewhere. As I mentioned earlier, this is just a place to start sorting things out since everyone will have a slightly different set up.

Cheers

El Matador · « **Reply #18 on:** January 09, 2007, 12:07:54 PM »

Is this the complete diagram? If so, then that means all of the stuff by the firewall (solenoids and such) and most of the items over on the passenger side can be eliminated?

Also, the line on the bottom which says "to 4WD shift motor"... where exactly IS the 4WD shift motor?

There must have been some change in components used between 1982 and 1984, because the symbology on the diagram doesn't quite match what's in my car in some cases. That's been the most confusing part for me. That and getting my head around the fact that so much stuff is done away with.

IowaEagle · « **Reply #19 on:** January 09, 2007, 07:07:34 PM »

The 4WD shift motors are the ones that change the transfer case from 2WD and 4WD and for cars with the disconnect axle it also operates the shift motor that engages or disengages the axle. IIRC the cars with the disconnect axle had an indpependent reservior on the passenger side and the cars without the disconnect axle may not have had that extra reservior. Eagles can have 1 - 3 reserviors depending on equipment. One on the driver's side, one on the passeger side and one on the passenger side firewall for cruise control.

Bird-o-Prey · « **Reply #20 on:** January 15, 2007, 11:25:05 PM »

Sorry!! I have been incogneto for some time now. I have not had much time to work on the eagle lately. Then, we had a dump of over a foot of snow overnight, last week. I don't think I'll be getting much done on the car till the spring now. To answer your question El Matador, yes, that is the whole shebang!! Once you remove all of the pollution control lead weights, that is what you are left with. As I posted earlier, this is just a bare bones, essential systems, diagram. I think it should allow for more flexibility in adjustment with respect to emmissions controls testing too! It is surprising how much crap (unnecessary) there is under the hood, though, eh?

trapperjack · « **Reply #21 on:** January 27, 2007, 01:46:11 PM »

Bird O Prey Iowa Eagle and others who have done this,
This may have been answered, but want clarification. the vac switches on the pass. fenderwell, those can be eliminated?
Thanks,
trapperjack

IowaEagle · « **Reply #22 on:** January 27, 2007, 03:01:51 PM »

I have not done it according to the diagram. Mine was just gut instinct. I forget if those are still functioning. I think so, but not to sure.

Bird-o-Prey · « **Reply #23 on:** January 29, 2007, 01:34:45 PM »

The Vac switches on the pass ferder wall were connected to the Pulsed air injection system, I believe. The electric connections are to open and close the switches. Mine are still on the fender simply because I haven't removed them yet. The car runs just fine without them, and better since I simplified the VAC plumbing. So, the short answer is yes, you could remove them without harming anything.

Cheers

trapperjack · « **Reply #24 on:** January 29, 2007, 06:51:07 PM »

I removed the remaining vac lines this afternoon, the ones from the switches on the fenderwell. Does not run right, not sure what's up. Followed the modified vac diagram, but definatly dissapointed. gonna try to re-rig everything back like it was. After disconnecting everything, the bird would turn over like crazy but wouldn't fire. Finally figured out I had busted a connection at the coil while pulling vac lines.

Bird-o-Prey · « **Reply #25 on:** January 29, 2007, 10:49:56 PM »

Have you replaced the vacuum lines? I had some problems with mine at first because the rubber was old and cracked and leaking in some places? Sorry, it didn't seem to make a difference to your engine! Mine ran awsome & smooth after I changed the lines and simpified the plumbing.

trapperjack · « **Reply #26 on:** January 30, 2007, 05:55:02 PM »

Well, I learned something today. I know nothing about these vaccum set ups. I arranded and re-arranged so many times using this diagram and that. Finally just left it running and started pulling and moving, plugging and splicing, capping and moving again. Finally all of the sudden it smoothed out. runs good again. Wish I knew why, so I'd have some words of wisdom. I'm basically just left scratching my butt and glad it's running right. Seems to be the vac to distributor causing problems. If I hook it to manifold or carb, runs rough and wants to die when put in gear. Hook it to the CTO like it shows in Chilton's runs good.
Whew!

IowaEagle · « **Reply #27 on:** January 30, 2007, 07:00:03 PM »

That's kind of how I did mine too.

Nick · « **Reply #28 on:** December 04, 2007, 05:52:22 PM »

I need a diagram for an '83wagon with a straight 6??? Need so much help it aint funny.

Thanks
Nick
[email protected]

cross-x · « **Reply #29 on:** February 18, 2008, 02:40:05 PM »

Quote from: Nick on December 04, 2007, 05:52:22 PM

I need a diagram for an '83wagon with a straight 6??? Need so much help it aint funny.

I have an original AMC service manual for 1982 so I run a 6 cylinder and a sytle of carb a bit different than the scematic shown on this page by other nesters here. My carb style is here; http://home.comcast.net/~hollaus/AMC/schematic_vacuum.htm
Looking at the vacuum connects to the carb and If this is your style then don't pay attention to the previous hacks above.

Quote from: trapperjack on January 27, 2007, 01:46:11 PM

Bird O Prey Iowa Eagle and others who have done this,
This may have been answered, but want clarification. the vac switches on the pass. fenderwell, those can be eliminated?
Thanks,
trapperjack

FYI, i run my car with all the original smog accessories and a fully functioning central processor with a home made LED display wired so that I can see all the signals in real driving time that are presented through the electrical diagnostic connector. The 2 vac switches you speak of are telling the processor to change the mode of closed loop driving and does such things as shunts out the oxygen sensor. If you don't have a functioning oxygen sensor or functionable carb stepper motor then it's not going to make any difference if you remove these vac switches. My point is that you probably can't pass an IM test with out these, but you might if you had an air injection pump like I do. I'm an electrician and do lots of troubleshooting, not an IM specialist.
(now I'm going to load my vac image into the link slot above)

cross-x · « **Reply #30 on:** February 18, 2008, 04:37:28 PM »

(temporary problem)
Tried to load the image but didn't work. My internet provider had to write up a trouble ticket for me that they say will take up to 3 days so I can't load the image for the above link yet until they are done.

IowaEagle · « **Reply #31 on:** February 18, 2008, 05:01:32 PM »

If the image is not too large you can e-mail it to me. jpg or gif is OK.

krazyk59 · « **Reply #32 on:** September 22, 2008, 09:00:52 AM »

in this diagram the line off the charcoal canister that says "to F/T" means to fuel tank correct? does it actualy go back to the fuel tank?? The one on my carb just has maybe a foot of vac hose on it and hangs down attatching to nothing?

IowaEagle · « **Reply #33 on:** September 22, 2008, 09:56:41 AM »

Is this the diagram you are using? And, yes, it goes back to the tank thru the rollover valve.

krazyk59 · « **Reply #34 on:** September 22, 2008, 10:14:21 AM »

Quote from: IowaEagle on September 22, 2008, 09:56:41 AM

Is this the diagram you are using? And, yes, it goes back to the tank thru the rollover valve.

I guess that means I need to find the line that this empty hose runs to if it is indeed suposed to go back to the gas tank from the Charcoal canister

Obscurity · « **Reply #35 on:** September 22, 2008, 10:41:44 AM »

Does anybody happen to know what the differences would be for an '81? My guess is that it would just be the vac line for 4x4 is unnecessary since I've got the NP 119, would I be right?
I'm still contemplating whether it would be necessary for me to do this since the car is idling very smoothly all things considered, though I do know for sure that my vac lines aren't in that configuration (or any other logical configuration that I can see).....

IowaEagle · « **Reply #36 on:** September 22, 2008, 11:51:49 AM »

I believe the charcoal canister setup would be the same regardless of 4 WD configuration. My 2WD Concord has the same setup.

g-man · « **Reply #37 on:** May 29, 2011, 03:44:12 PM »

Quote from: Bird-o-Prey on October 02, 2006, 11:54:04 PM

OK, we have all asked about it but finally, here it is for everyone to see. I spent more than a couple of days working this one out. All of the emissions equipment is gone . All that remains are the essential systems.

Brake Booster
EGR valve
Sole-vac
Distributor advance
4x4 vacuum
PCV & Fuel cannister
Choke (on mine)

Also, I have the TVS & TAC Vac. motor in the air cleaner cove connected. I hope this helps every one out there who may be in the same boat I was. Also, I hope it helps those of you doing EXTENDED bench testing of their pollution / emissions equipment. I have set my car up like this and I also test ran it and boy is it ever smooooooth now! This worked for me, but I don't suggest you should go out blindly and start ripping out components. Remember the old axiom..."If it ain't broke, DON'T fix it"!!!

Bird-o-Prey,

I know this is pretty old, but I just found it recently.
Could you please tell me how your driveability has been since you made these modifications?
Especially interested in Mileage and Acceleration. Any part load cylinder mis-firing at all?
I would love to do this to my Eagle. It's an '81 SX4, but it should be pretty similar to your set-up.
Thank you very much,

g-man

PS I'll take some before and after photos of my work.

thereverendbill · « **Reply #38 on:** May 29, 2011, 04:02:40 PM »

when I went to this setup the car became more responsive and drives a heck of a sight better, I also upgraded to the GM HEI distributor at the same time though

1982AMCCONCORD · « **Reply #39 on:** September 09, 2011, 08:53:45 AM »

Hey I am glad I found this too!

What are the differences with this and an 82 Concord?

I was told that I should do this because my vacuum lines are all wrong. My Concord runs bad. I want to do the Motorcraft carb swap and the TFI upgrade when I do this as well.

85AmCfreak · « **Reply #40 on:** October 03, 2012, 11:27:31 PM »

I have a question is this a 5 port Vacuum switch using only 3 ports? Are 2 of the ports spliced?

Bird-o-Prey · « **Reply #41 on:** October 04, 2012, 09:21:04 PM »

Yes, you can see a line drawn between the two ports. I copied this from the manual. There are several types of these vac switches. After I stripped my vac system down, I ended up installing a 3 port switch, which I don't even use anymore except when I hook up my EGR for emmissions testing.

85AmCfreak · « **Reply #42 on:** October 05, 2012, 01:35:38 AM »

You took the words out of my mouth, I was just going to ask if we can use an 84' 3 port switch. How does the switch work anyway?

Draekon · « **Reply #43 on:** October 05, 2012, 10:52:40 AM »

The CTO switch is a coolant temp override switch. It blocks all vacuum when then coolant is below a certain temperature, and then opens up once the coolant has warmed. With the 5 port switch, the two ports are connected to the same hose in order to provide vacuum to both sets of ports.

85AmCfreak · « **Reply #44 on:** October 05, 2012, 09:41:00 PM »

So if I remove that switch I will loose coolant?

carnuck · « **Reply #45 on:** October 06, 2012, 09:19:47 AM »

only if you unscrew it

85AmCfreak · « **Reply #46 on:** October 06, 2012, 09:02:37 PM »

cool thanks

Author Topic: Modified Vacuum line diagram for the 258 (Read 61978 times)

hojorisin

1982AMCCONCORD