AMC Eagle Den Forum
The Shop => Project Cars => Topic started by: ynwa on January 02, 2011, 10:21:53 PM
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Ok this will be quite a tedious journey but I'm looking forward to it.
I'll post a whack of photos very soon (don't want to get too far into the tear down without some before shots).
First off I have a couple pics to share of some interesting body damage that I came across.
Unfortunately it was so out of place that I curiously poked and pried until the piece popped off so I've sort of replace the piece.
Before I made it worse the only blemish was the crack in the .. ahh i'll just show some pics..
(http://i1114.photobucket.com/albums/k522/ynwa666/Eagles%20Nest/P1011175.jpg)
This is the top right corner of the front windshield.
(http://i1114.photobucket.com/albums/k522/ynwa666/Eagles%20Nest/P1011176.jpg)
There does appear to be an impact on the front right bumper corner but what amazed me is that the windshield is mint and the frame and susp is fine.
Here's what my curiosity revealed under the blemish.
(http://i1114.photobucket.com/albums/k522/ynwa666/Eagles%20Nest/P1011174.jpg)
Wierd eh?!! Sorta scary. hehe.
I'm going to run a vin report from ICBC to see if there's been any 'issues' in the past.
Anyone seen anything like this before?
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Those seems are filled with lead from the factory. As none is apparent there it would suggest some work was done in that area in the past - maybe a roof replaced due to hail damage? Hopefully after sandblasting the rust will be superficial and you'll just need to refill and paint.
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Thanks Priya. Put my mind at ease. Was concerned about the origin of the initial crack. *shrug*.
'Sand Blaster' That'd be nice. :) Massive pic archive coming later today...
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If you don't have the funds or ability to repair the area right away then take a wire brush to the area and then put 2 or 3 coats of rust paint on it. There appears to be some black goo in there, if so scrape that out first and then clean with a solvent before wire brushing and painting. If the area leaks then you may want to consider putting some caulking over the seam as a temporary measure. That will need to be cleaned out completely before doing a more permanent repair and silicon, butyl, etc. can be pretty difficult to remove from a crevice like that and will cause adhesion problems for the filler if its not completely removed first so you want to avoid doing this if at all possible. If the rusting is superficial it shouldn't cost too much for a body shop to fix that up for you. If the rust is deeper and a patch needed it would be more expensive but probably still not too too pricey. If the windshield needs to come out that's going to add maybe 100-150 to the cost unless you do it yourself and remove the headliner and windshield pillar trim yourself.
Its better to have picked at the blemish and found this problem now so it can be addressed before it becomes serious than to have pretended there was no problem at all and let the rust continue to eat away at the car.
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Okay, here goes. The first batch...
I wonder if there is a forum software update that would allow us to use HTML? Photobucket has a nice Embedded Slideshow feature that would save on scrolling. :)
Oh yea, I have all of the trim, just pulled it prior to first shots. Unfortunately it's not in the best shape and the hood orn emblem is long gone :(
(http://i1114.photobucket.com/albums/k522/ynwa666/Eagles%20Nest/P1011206-1.jpg)(http://i1114.photobucket.com/albums/k522/ynwa666/Eagles%20Nest/P1011197.jpg)(http://i1114.photobucket.com/albums/k522/ynwa666/Eagles%20Nest/P1011212.jpg)(http://i1114.photobucket.com/albums/k522/ynwa666/Eagles%20Nest/P1011196.jpg)(http://i1114.photobucket.com/albums/k522/ynwa666/Eagles%20Nest/P1011213.jpg)(http://i1114.photobucket.com/albums/k522/ynwa666/Eagles%20Nest/P1011181.jpg)(http://i1114.photobucket.com/albums/k522/ynwa666/Eagles%20Nest/P1011202.jpg)(http://i1114.photobucket.com/albums/k522/ynwa666/Eagles%20Nest/P1011208.jpg)(http://i1114.photobucket.com/albums/k522/ynwa666/Eagles%20Nest/P1011191.jpg)(http://i1114.photobucket.com/albums/k522/ynwa666/Eagles%20Nest/P1011186.jpg)(http://i1114.photobucket.com/albums/k522/ynwa666/Eagles%20Nest/P1011182.jpg)(http://i1114.photobucket.com/albums/k522/ynwa666/Eagles%20Nest/P1011201.jpg)(http://i1114.photobucket.com/albums/k522/ynwa666/Eagles%20Nest/P1011188.jpg)(http://i1114.photobucket.com/albums/k522/ynwa666/Eagles%20Nest/P1011193.jpg)
Well it's covered and I can take my time.
Immediate issues (marginally prioritized)
- Tear down for rust repair
- Rust repair (rear windows, small repair near rear window, front windshield may need to come out for some larger holes/decide on the door corners
- Door busings (drivers side drops like an inch or more, grinding on fender, hehe
- lots of surface rust on 'inside' behind panels. Hopefully just sand and treat
- Figure out why the PO removed the front driveshaft...
Peace!!
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It'll be a good project for sure. Looking forward to watching it.
I think HTML embedding isn't in the forums because it's too easy for spammers to 'infect' with other HTML embedding.
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I am not sure what is meant by HTML embedding. I am ignorant when it comes to computer stuff. What is the underbody condition? That A pillar crack looks like it may have started life as a stress crack --maybe from a compromised unibody???
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Doug, that's not a crack in the A pillar, that's where the roof panel joins the A pillar/cowl panel. They were just spot welded together at the factor and the crude joint filled with lead. It appears either no flux was used before the joint was leaded or that joint had been apart for some reason (roof replaced?) and filled with bondo or fiberglass filler without a thorough cleaning of the joint which let it rust underneath the filler. I've never seen a car where that joint rusted and the lead fell out so I think some work was done involving that joint. Perhaps it was not welded solidly and flexing at the joint cause the filler to come out or maybe as you suggested weak spots elsewhere in the body caused flexing there which caused the filler to come out.
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I am not sure what is meant by HTML embedding. I am ignorant when it comes to computer stuff. What is the underbody condition?
email sent. Back to topic...
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Doug, that's not a crack in the A pillar, that's where the roof panel joins the A pillar/cowl panel. They were just spot welded together at the factor and the crude joint filled with lead. It appears either no flux was used before the joint was leaded or that joint had been apart for some reason (roof replaced?) and filled with bondo or fiberglass filler without a thorough cleaning of the joint which let it rust underneath the filler. I've never seen a car where that joint rusted and the lead fell out so I think some work was done involving that joint. Perhaps it was not welded solidly and flexing at the joint cause the filler to come out or maybe as you suggested weak spots elsewhere in the body caused flexing there which caused the filler to come out.
I see that now. You are more than likely right on the money. Either a poor factory assembly or a later repair and some body flexing may have popped it out.
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img width=775 height=581]http://i1114.photobucket.com/albums/k522/ynwa666/Eagles%20Nest/P1011174.jpg[/img]
Wierd eh?!! Sorta scary. hehe.
I'm going to run a vin report from ICBC to see if there's been any 'issues' in the past. Anyone seen anything like this before?
I have, but only with damage repair. I've seen eagle repairs to this area, but not to that depth. Maybe some of the more experienced 'veterans' will be able say that it's depth is common, but I honestly didn't know it was that deep.
I agree with Priya and IE here. Looks like an 'after repair' from a bad joint from the factory.
Doing a Vehicle report is a really good idea.
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Looks like you will have your hands full. Keep the pics coming as I have 2 of these myself.
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This is probably the last thing that I'll end up doing, next to the trim, but is there a thread about restoring the vinyl roof ? I suspect I will just apply a heavy textured marine deck paint or something similar. I suspect a new vinyl roof may be cost prohibitive.
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Before you put a vinyl roof back on consider how the previous one trapped water and caused the roof to rust.
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If it were mine, I would just do the body work and paint the entire car, roof and all.
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X2 what Rollguy and priya said. I would not bother with ever putting a vinyl roof back on. They can look cool, but the downside is going thru all that rot repair again.
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X2 what Rollguy and priya said. I would not bother with ever putting a vinyl roof back on. They can look cool, but the downside is going thru all that rot repair again.
Isn't that why we own Eagles? For the rot repair? Hehe.. No seriously, point taken. Hard to ignore the profound logic in the comments above.
Huge RUSH fan myself...... I'm sure you have seen the Documentary.
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LOLOL, Yup, I think that is why. Wer're all bodymen (and women) in training.
Well, I'll have to egg ya for being a Rush fan (saw the doc several times, I recorded it! he he he) and for saving this car - If I haven't already egg'd ya for it yet.
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D'OH !! Guess I'm looking for a new hinge ...
I guess I could get a friend to build up with weld and drill out again... *shrug..
(http://i1114.photobucket.com/albums/k522/ynwa666/Eagles%20Nest/P1011216.jpg)
FRIST EGG !!!! Booya!. ")
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Oooly crap! That is some serious wear. Yup, yer looking for hinges.
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I gave you a "real" EGG for sharing with us a great shot of a worn hinge.
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A new vinyl top is not all that expensive... depending on where ya go of course. But as some of the other members have stated, they are a breeding ground for rust!! I personally think they look more sporty without the vinyl top. A good alternative to the vinyl is Rhino Liner. I have used it on several cars. It comes in all kinds of colors and its tough and cost effective. Good luck on your bird!!
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Tops are $129 on auction if you want to do it yourself. The vinyl itself was never a problem, just poor design when it comes to sealing around the emblems, opera window, and trim. Shops do it diffferently now with no issues. I think they look funky on every one I've seen where they just painted the roof.
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Tops are $129 on auction if you want to do it yourself. The vinyl itself was never a problem, just poor design when it comes to sealing around the emblems, opera window, and trim. Shops do it diffferently now with no issues. I think they look funky on every one I've seen where they just painted the roof.
That is a very interesting perspective and option. Thank you! I will definitely check that out. Save the multiple days of smearing adhesive remover on 30 year old glue. heheh...
pm'd you.
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Tops are $129 on auction if you want to do it yourself. The vinyl itself was never a problem, just poor design when it comes to sealing around the emblems, opera window, and trim. Shops do it diffferently now with no issues. I think they look funky on every one I've seen where they just painted the roof.
That is a very interesting perspective and option. Thank you! I will definitely check that out. Save the multiple days of smearing adhesive remover on 30 year old glue. heheh...
pm'd you.
I think you're going to have to spend those multiple days even if you choose to put a vinyl roof back on. The uneven adhesive will likely be visible through the vinyl unless you remove it, but you could ask a body shop that does a lot of vinyl roofs if they think it will show through. I also wouldn't hold my breath thinking any one can install a vinyl roof that doesn't let water through regardless of how hard they try.
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I wanted to keep this in my resto thread to list all the pain. hehe..
Just rebuilt carb noticed that fuel is leaking out the throttle body on the linkage side when I pump gas in the chamber.
I hope this gets a few reads and someone can tell me what the best case scenario is. Sure not interested in a new carb since I just rebuilt it. hehe...
Oh well, should be a cheap donor out there somewhere.. I guess I'm looking at a majorly worn throttle body shaft.
Best fix here?
Cheers.
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If you can find the part number of the shaft then there might be other carbs that shared that shaft. I know that someone who sells carbs on auction mentions that rebuild kits don't address this issue. If you could find or make a washer just the right size and then find a fuel resistent epoxy or something then that might work. I would try to find brass ones or another soft metal so as not to wear on the shaft further. That is the only thing I can think of but Mudkicker might have some good ideas.
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i think as far as the carb goes i would just upgrade to the popular MC 2100 ...... I have heard lots of good things about that conversion
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No epoxy that will work for long. Best I can offer without hands on is.
The throttle body is aluminum. Tension and rotation can wear that hole out, or out of round. If you visibly see it leaking at idle. Than best guess its wore out and poses a fire risk. Otherwise. Try using an unlit torch (for leak detection if a leak it will idle up). But all a guess on a little bit of description....... and the assumption its not a gasket. Or you damaged it putting it on.
I use propane for leak detection as why put a flammable liquid on hot exaust parts. Propane flys away and is less messy.
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Thats gonna be one sharp lookin car when your done. Rust can be so overwelming, especially in those areas. Eggs for stickin with it!!!
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Update. Scored a virtually brand new bbd locally for 75 bux. Whoop!
IT WILL RUN THIS WEEKEND !! heh...
Next set of questions will be for people's frugal yet functional carpeting layers. Expecting Hinges shortly so doors can go back on and on to the interior.
What should be my concerns regarding safety/fire rating for 'underlay' .. oops. I should check the other forums.. :)
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Congrats!!
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Okay, it's been a while. I'm still powering away here as time permits. Fought like made with a starting issue. Turned out to be a mis-aligned distributor. After replacing a crapload of ignition bits I finally decided to confirm what was happening with the firing order. I had already confirmed that I had fuel and spark. Okay so with the #1 at TDC I pulled the cap to find that the rotor was pointing an entire post behind the #1. Pulled the distributor rotated it a couple of teeth, aligned the oil pump notch set everything at BOOM! The 1980 Geezer leaps to life and runs nice and smooth at higher RPM's. Still some fine tuning to do but after hearing her run I set my sights back on to the body starting from the rear... That's where things get a little 'rusty'.
Back left corner has been hit pretty hard based on where the car was resting for several years. As you'll see from these pics I'm hoping that this is mostly sheet metal ....
(http://i1114.photobucket.com/albums/k522/ynwa666/P1011265.jpg)
Oh yea, found out why my Fuel Gage wasn't working. hehe..
(http://i1114.photobucket.com/albums/k522/ynwa666/P1011251.jpg)
Left side bumper mount. Very nervous here.
(http://i1114.photobucket.com/albums/k522/ynwa666/P1011253.jpg)
Super nasty !!
(http://i1114.photobucket.com/albums/k522/ynwa666/P1011254.jpg)
Same hanger, crossing fingers that body mounts are in okay shape.
(http://i1114.photobucket.com/albums/k522/ynwa666/P1011258.jpg)
Left rear u-bolt bracket.. Yikes!! Right side is fine, but will replace both of course.
(http://i1114.photobucket.com/albums/k522/ynwa666/P1011252.jpg)
Right side bumper mount. Hopefully just some bolts to slice off ..
Priority for the short term of course are all the suspension pieces. While I'm here I'll want to bump the height of the rear end a bit. Blocks are easy but as I'm replacing the hangers, perhaps longer hangers are the best idea. There is also the Add-a-Leaf option as the packs are loose as well.
Feel free to suggest the best, safest option for a couple inches in the back. I'm working my way forward from the back and will need to pull the windshield for some repair as the Urethane has separated from the drivers upper corner and will need to be redone.
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I'll second what Regalwizard said.
when I redo the suspension, I'll probably go with a bit heavier (or more) leaf springs. Now for the front, there's a trick to adding longer bolts to the bottom of the shock, and then putting several washers between the shock and the shock mount, so it will actually add 2 (no more then 2.5?) inches to the front.
If you've ever taken off the front shocks, they seem to be the thing that limits the height. Now if you could find a slightly longer shock of the same type, that would do the same thing. But either way, those are the best ways to add about 2 inches (without issues to drive train) to your eagle.
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Thats a good Idea with the front shocks...I may have to do that.
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i was thinking that the easiest way to get a few inches would be shackle extensions in the back and some coil spring spacer donuts in the front. i think you can probably find a longer shock with no difficulty.
i will be doing these things once i get the metal work done, it'll be in my project thread (eventually)
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I gained almost 2 inches with my shackles and I still have another hole to go. This is on my 87 sedan.........
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I thought shackle extensions made the back sway more. is that true or not?
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Hey wow, replies! heh.
@whutmore - killer idea on the front. I like that. Agree'd on the rear sway. Poly can help but in my reading too much shackle will create rear float bigtime. However I was knocking around trying to find over the counter shackles when they're just straight steel, hehe...
@regalwizard - Ya, I actually spoke to them before we chatted. They did mention an SAS'd eagle that they worked on but wouldn't be able to help out with spring plates.
I'm trying for budget 'get it on the road' at the moment and totally agree on the add-a-leaf. That should be the priority but wow, there's a crapload of work still to do. Springs look okay, other than the surface rust.
Recent work:
Pulled rear end - Wire wheel grinder surface rust / Paint
Rear diff pinion seal
Clean out sludge in pumpkin (I think it had the original cork gasket)
Clean and paint diff cover
Cut out the rest of the spring hardware / grind/paint leaf springs.
Perhaps a little weeping or pathetic sobbing. hehe...
Going for Blood Red accents against the Primer Black body with some fine double pinstriping .. I know thinking too far ahead.
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Wow, that's some serious rust. I thought I was looking at pictures of the Titanic for a minute there.
Not beyond repair, but a daunting task for sure. Any idea as to where that car is originally from? I didn't think southwestern BC was rust belt territory.
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If you're gonna use paint to cover like the rear diff, springs, frame once it's repaired, or anything that doesn't take alot of heat (brake components, or engine) use Rim paint.
I was talking to a body man and he suggested get some paint (that's for spray painting rims) and use that. It sticks to bare metal, doesn't need any primer, and it's tough. And you can paint over it with no issues.
I've heard that tremclad is a poor choice.
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i recently bought some primer that claims "chemically turns surface rust into a water proof primer"- obviously i do plan on cleaning everything up as best i can. i figure some chemical reaction must change iron oxide to something else but i am curious as to its true nature, anyone know anything?
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I tried those with little success. I did it on the bottom of the driver's door on my Grand Am. It's coming back, and it hasn't even been a year. So, I wouldn't trust those.
I got a chance to spend about 10 minutes picking a bodyman's brain. He told me two very important things -
1. Rust is like cancer. Get every little bit, or it just comes back,
and 2. don't use Tremclad rust paint. Use the Paint for painting rims.
It's wayyy better then tremclad. Sticks to bare metal, bodywork, etc, doesn't need primer, is really tough, and you can paint over it with another color (because rim paint comes in limited colors) with no problems.
You're best bet is to sand blast. There must be someone around you, or a place where you can get it sandblasted, clean it with some thinner, and then cover it with rim paint. It would be worth the time and money to do this.
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Naval jelly works descent.
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Even here in colorado, with very little humidity and not much salt on the roads to speak of, these cars still tend to develope rust after 23+ years. Unless its been a meticulously kept garage queen its whole life that only got driven on Sundays, or a native Arizona or Nevada car, chances are its going to have some degree of rust development.
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It's been all quiet on the sedan resto front. I got the rear end back in, lifted, poly bushings but I was still having issues getting some body welding together.
I don't know how this happened but another 1980 2dr sedan shows up in GREAT shape!! No rust (some on the rear well) but nothing like my other proj had in the back. I'll post a bunch of new pics but I have a question regarding Vinyl Repair. The roof is 'starting' to deteriorate and I'd like to hear anyones experience with extending it's life with some spot repair. There are a slew of products out there and I'd like to exploit everyone else's trial and error. :occasion14:
Here's an example blemish.
(http://i1114.photobucket.com/albums/k522/ynwa666/Eagles%20Nest/P1011420.jpg)
what say thee?
Also did the '80 sedan come stock with power window/locks? My other is all manual.
Cheers!!
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They were optional but available in 1980.
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You're saying there is absolutely no rust anywhere under the vinyl anywhere? Not anything around the opera windows?
You might wanna double check that, cause those are soo prone to getting rot under the vinyl around those windows, it's almost guaranteed to have some rust/rot.
I'd do that before I'd do any kind of vinyl repair. I'm guessing you really want to keep the vinyl look?
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I have an 81 concord with whats left of a vinyl roof. It started to look like your picture in a few places about 3 years ago and now almost the whole thing has crumbled apart.
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Naw, there's some rust peeking under the opera windows on one side, looks very minor on the other. Just looking to extend the life a little bit on the top. At some point I'll pull it off but having done this on the 'rust bucket' It's an arduous task.
So no miracle smear on resto products? :)
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They do make vinyl top repair...you can get it at alot of auto stores. They work to a degree...I used it on an old cadillac I had...They look ok but if ya look close you definatly know its there.
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Okay it's been a while. Here's a little of what I've been up to on the Raven (see how that wears, hehe.. Seeing as it's be matte black when I'm done).
Ripped the dash apart and found that several pins on the dash side of the plug had busted off (same with the parts car) Okay that clears up some of the missing dash light issues. hehe.. I soldered the pins back and due to the delicate nature of the solder I fabbed an alternate plug option: In case anyone has this issue and can't find the OEM plugs which will fit the plug channels. (mine were buggered and corroded)
(http://i1114.photobucket.com/albums/k522/ynwa666/P1011475.jpg)
(http://i1114.photobucket.com/albums/k522/ynwa666/P1011477.jpg)
(http://i1114.photobucket.com/albums/k522/ynwa666/P1011480.jpg)
(http://i1114.photobucket.com/albums/k522/ynwa666/P1011478.jpg)
Those reducers aren't cheap but they fit perfect and are very neat. Shrink tube fits overtop, flush to the end to protect any metal on metal contact from adjacent plugs.
Oh yea.. Motor in 'non rusty' car was bagged and had very bad blowby. Swapped with the rust bucket which ran fairly nice.
Out comes the Old
(http://i1114.photobucket.com/albums/k522/ynwa666/P1011484.jpg)
In with the New (ish)
(http://i1114.photobucket.com/albums/k522/ynwa666/2011-08-08192912.jpg)
Some crazy dude
(http://i1114.photobucket.com/albums/k522/ynwa666/P1011488.jpg)
Uhhhhhh...
(http://i1114.photobucket.com/albums/k522/ynwa666/P1011489.jpg)
Action Shot: All In both Eagles.
(http://i1114.photobucket.com/albums/k522/ynwa666/P1011504.jpg)
It turns out that the donor motor was already switched out. The vertical mount for the front dif which mounts to the block on the stock motor was fabbed with a piece of angle iron with the bracket mounted to it.. I thought I shot a couple pics but I'll get them up soon. Sorta Sketchy actually....
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Makin good progress dude!....your light years ahead of where im at on my project. Time has not been on my side this summer.
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ynwa, is that a build in mechanic or one of dose gremlins that keep playing with our AMC Eagles?
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Hehe, Gremlin for sure. Never really knows what to do next. Been sidetracked with a shed build but intend to be right back on this. Forgot to mark the flywheel to the TC so that was a fun exercise. The 4 bolts only line up once (if that makes sense). Anyway, hope to have more progress shots soon!
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Trying to restore my project post.
Finally dusted off the Sedan, cleaning the engine deck and saw this:
(http://i1114.photobucket.com/albums/k522/ynwa666/IMG_20140601_1631101.jpg) (http://s1114.photobucket.com/user/ynwa666/media/IMG_20140601_1631101.jpg.html)
Will she blow up if I try to build like this? I'm thinking yes, and that's a very demoralizing outcome...
Appreciate all replies (if this gets seen).
Thanks.
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Thanks for kick starting the thread back up. I don't know enough to give you a good answer, but I'll reply anyway. I would think the deck would need to be ground enough to get rid of that big channel. Whether taking that much material off causes other problems would be the question. Or maybe its possible to fill it, and then grind it smooth???
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No need to grind. It would have to be the same end to end or it will act like a warped block. As I said on the evolution board, you can fill those grooves with shellac right before you put the head on (I even slathered the top of my Rambler flathead block because it was warped and I didn't have $$ to fix it. Drove it 5 years that way)