Lots of engine swap questions! Please Help.

[Tony and Nicki]

Hi guys,

We’ve been out of sight for the last 7 months since the Concord threw a rod. We’ve been waiting for a suitable donor engine to turn up locally that we could afford (we paid $250) and that finally happened so we’re getting ready to install it. We think it has 128,000 miles on it so it’s no spring chicken but not too tired.

The donor came from a ‘77 CJ7 that we were able to see/hear running. It’s pretty clean and sounded really good. No smoke no knocks no leaks.
The seller got it off his dad who had it in his jeep for a short while who had got if off the original owner. The guy who sold it had only had it in for a month before he decided to upgrade to a V8.

Anyway I have some questions that maybe someone can answer. First of all, the engine still has everything on it including a 1bl carb/manifold set up. What I was wondering is would it be a good idea to keep that in terms of economy? If so how would that work out in terms of throttle linkage etc.

Also I’ve been doing some cross referencing and I noticed that certain items are not the same part number on the ‘77 258 as the ‘80. For instance, the Water Pump. They look the same so I was wondering are they different ‘cos of the rotation is a different direction? Same goes for the Power Steering Pump?

I also noticed the Fly wheels are different even though the teeth count, OD and pitch are the same. I guess it’s no big deal as I can just transfer Concord’s flywheel over to the jeep engine right? However just curious.

The other thing is the ‘77 jeep engine would have had points type distributer but this one has had a conversion to pointless that looks pretty recent and I was wondering if it would be worth keeping it and if so how it would work out in terms of the electric hook up. The Concord dizzy has 4 wires coming from the module whereas the ‘new’ engine has two.

Sorry it’s a lot of questions but I’m still new to AMC’s so I’m on a steep learning curve right now.

Cheers!
Nicki and Tony
Tucson Az

[IowaEagle]

My '80 Concord gets about 17 - 18 mpg with the two barrel set up.  The one barrel probably does better, but the 2bbl does wake the engine up a bit.  Sounds like an HEI ignition, so that would be worth keeping vs. the Motorcraft ICM set up.  Water pump rotation should be the same on a '77 vs. any other V-Belt 258.  I see some impeller differences in the pictures below.  The shaft length may be different too.  No specs were given.

'80 water pump


'77 water pump

[Tony and Nicki]

Are you talking about in town mileage? What about the throttle linkage? It isn't the same. If anything, I would like to leave everything on the engine and just drop it in "as is." It would be a lot less work, but I was wondering if it would be advisable to keep the 1 barrel vs going with the 2bbl?

So does that mean I can't put a 1980 water pump on a '77? Just before the engine threw a rod, we had just replaced the water pump a day before, so it is brand new. I would like to use it if I can.

Again, sorry for all the questions, but I'm totally new to this type of engine.

Thank You,
Tony and Nicki

[Tony and Nicki]

Also...if I were going to stick with the HEI, how would I hook up the electrics?

[thereverendbill]

Before you put the new engine in it would be a great time to clean up the engine bay and maybe put a coat of paint in there and the same with the new engine.  It's little things like that if you don't do latter you will kick yourself. 

[Tony and Nicki]

We were already intending to do just that. Absolutely right...it's on my list of "to do's." Just trying to get some questions answered before the actual install. We will be starting the swap tomorrow. As far as the engine, it is actually very nice, clean, and painted. It was a great deal. I will post some pictures when I get the chance.

[Eagleearl]

My 1975 TSM shows only pointless ignition and I doubt any points type ignitions were being used by 1977,so it is probably the stock distributor. You would probably need to change the ignition module to the right style for the distributor or find someone who knows how to rewire them to work together, but it probably would be easiest to use your old  distributor if it is in good shape.     

If the water pump bolts up and turns freely and the belts line up wit the pulley it should be fine.

Can you hook the throttle linkage up to the jeep carburetor? Will the exhaust hook up the same? If it does I would try it the way it is and you can always change it later if you want. If not it would likely be better to use the newer setup. If you go with the two barrel setup I would try to find an aluminum water heated intake from a later engine.

[IowaEagle]

That MPG is highway/city.  Its not the most economical car out there.  Take some measurements of the critical parts of the pumps to see where the differences are.  From the picture the impeller appears to be different but I don't see that as an issue.  Measure the shaft length from the face of the pump to the end, the position of the mounting flange and the diameter of the shaft; and the overall depth of the unit from the shaft end to the pump mounting surface.  That could be where the differences are.  I am guessing the Jeep is a manual trans and the Concord is an automatic so there may be some carb linkage issues.  Besides having the correct throttle linkage you will also need to have the transmission throttle rod to connect up.

[Tony and Nicki]

Mmmm ok. That's a bit disappointing news about the MPG. I think my Falcon with a V8 and 4 bl gets about same or better if I keep it down to 55mph. I remember reading that it could get better than that. Oh well, no biggie just curious. 

As far as the water pump is concerned, I'll probably leave the '77 on there for now. I was just wondering about keeping the Concord's for future replacement in the event of failure since its practically brand new. I swear they're the same and I agree that the impeller should not be an issue. They vary from manufacturer to manufacturer anyway.

Yes the Jeep was a manual trans and it looks like it had a rod type throttle linkage whereas the concord has the cable type. In the end I'll probably just swap the Concord's 2bl set up and save any headaches.

Cheers!
Tony and Nicki

[IowaEagle]

I agree with carb swap.   Don't use my Concord as being representative of the typical MPG for these cars.  Mine is a true survivor and may actually have the original spark plugs along with many other items from the factory which would have been, in most cars, changed out sometime in the past 32 years.

[txjeeptx]

Ok, the water pump should be the same if the belt type is the same:  v-belt and serpentine pumps rotate opposite directions. If your car is v-belt and the new engine is v-belt, then the pump should be the same, unless there is a difference in shaft length for different accessory drive configurations(like AC vs non-AC).

[Tony and Nicki]

OK thanks guys,

Amazingly enough I was able to drive the Concord into the garage where I will be doing the swap. Even with a tennis ball size hole in the block and after sitting for 7 months! Probably could have driven further actually!

Anyway I'm all set to start pulling the motor tomorrow although I expect to take a few days over it as I can't work on it all day every day.

Yes the 'new' engine is V belt and so is the Concord so as you say there should be no significant difference. As it happens I'll probably sticks with the one that's on there for now in any case.

As far as the Power Steering pump is concerned. I did look briefly today and it might be that the only difference between the two is the inlet/outlets.

Then regarding the HEI distributor that's already on the 'new' engine. If I decide to stay with it, from what I can gather all it would take is to use the yellow wire that normally runs to the module and run that to the Distributor and thus by-pass the module.

Cheers!
Nicki and Tony

[thereverendbill]

if it has the HEI on it already I'd keep it there.  I just put an HEI in my wagon and I have noticed better fuel economy both in the city and out on the highway.  And you are correct about the yellow wire to power it, you might want to head to the local salvage yard and get the GM connector that powers the HEI.  We tried a spade terminal and i wasn't all that thrilled with how loose it seemed on there

[Tony and Nicki]

OK thanks Reverendbill, As soon as I get some new batteries for the Camera I'll post some pics of the Dizzy and no doubt someone can tell me what I have.

I made a little progress today and got the rad, fan and hood off. I noticed that the Power Steering Pump does indeed have different Inlet/outlets. At least they are not in the same position. I don't think it would be a big deal to make the Jeep Power steering pump connections work for Concord but it also won't be a big deal to swap Concord's pump over to the Jeep engine as the mounting is the same and the jeep's will have to come off when I remove the Manifold anyway.

The other thing I noticed is the pulley system differs. On the '77 jeep set up, the Alternator bracket mounts the alternator higher than '80 Concord's and the V belt runs from the Crank pulley to a double groove fan pulley then to the alternator whereas the Concord's runs straight to the alternator from the crank pulley.

Cheers!
Nicki and Tony

I'm not sure that Concord's alternator bracket will even be mountable on the Jeep engine unless I switch out the timing chain cover. The only other difference I could tell was the crank pulleys. The Concord's rear is smaller than the front pulley but the Jeep's are the same size diameter.

I guess at some point I'll need to make a decision as to which pulley set up I will go with. No biggie except when it comes time to replace V belts I'd have to remember not to buy '80 Concord for the alternator belt. As far as I can tell the Power Steering and Power steering to smog pump are the same.

[Tony and Nicki]

Hey guys,

I just noticed that the Jeep and Concord's oil pans are not the same. This normally wouldn't be a problem, but I can't transfer the Concord's oil pan to the Jeep engine because the Concord's got a hole in it from when I threw the rod. So my question is: Would I be able to use the Jeep oil pan, or does anybody have an oil pan or know where I could get one that I could use? I'm assuming that I would need to get a donor from an Eagle, Concord, or Spirit...I actually have no idea.

Any information is helpful. Thanks,
Tony and Nicki

[mudkicker715]

Oil pan is eagle specific.

[thereverendbill]

I dunno, the jeep pan might just drop right in your concord.  what i would do is take a measurement of where the sump starts on the jeep pan then crawl under your car and see if it will clear the front crossmember

[Tony and Nicki]

Thanks guys.

OK thanks mudkicker, well I guess I can't get a donor from an Eagle then?

Also thanks reverendbill, I'll have a look tomorrow. From a quick look I'd say it ought to clear the cross member. Looks like it would have a little less capacity though.

I guess I could always try to repair the Concord's Pan if all else fails as suggested by vangremlin

cheers!

[mudkicker715]

I forgot this is a concord. Was thinking eagle. For an eagle onle an eagle pan works.