Fuel injection or dual carb

[Franzl66]

When I get my sx4 I'm planning to do   Either an Eli or the Clifford's dual carb/intake kit.   

My question is. Which would provide more power.  As near as I can tell there's no real data that I can find.  And price is nearly the same

[Franzl66]

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/fst-30294-kit/overview/make/jeep

http://www.cliffordperformance.net/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=CP&Product_Code=477000&Category_Code=J258

Links to both kits

[Prafeston]

Wow! Pricey!

[Budwisr]

 My guess is the dual carbs would require other engine mods (for increased breathing) to realize the horsepower increase, not to mention much tricker to get tuned properly. The fuel injection would be easier but doesn't have the cool factor of the twin carbs.Depends on what you are wanting; a cool hot rod or a dependable driver.

[carnuck]

I want to do an EFI swap and use the dual throat throttle body for the 5.2/5.9 Grand Cherokee. Oh! And for those running a MC2100 or 2150 carb, check the JGC air intake piece to your carb for hood clearance. It should allow a cone filter very easily.

[Franzl66]

I'm leaning towards the efi.   Mainly because potential for forced induction would be possible.   (My old roommate runs a custom fab company building turbo kits etc.).  The turbo spirit car built back in the 80's pulled 450hp out of the 258 using efi and turbo

[Budwisr]

I'm leaning towards the efi.   Mainly because potential for forced induction would be possible.   (My old roommate runs a custom fab company building turbo kits etc.).  The turbo spirit car built back in the 80's pulled 450hp out of the 258 using efi and turbo

Just imagine what can be done with modern technology.

[Baskinator]

http://www.fourwheeler.com/how-to/engine/154-1001-insane-inline-ii-part-2/

693 hp I6, featured by JP Magazine. Yes, it can be done. Will it be reliable? Probably not.

I really would like to go the EFI route. The Howell (GM) TBI would be your best bet for reliability, tunability, easy access parts, ease of install, and price. That, and it's 50 state smog legal so you won't have trouble passing inspection in emissions areas.

Just slapping either of these onto a stock engine isn't going to net tremendous power gains. That comes from machining and a plethora of other expensive performance parts. There are a few options for small increases, but you probably won't see over 200hp without totally rebuilding the thing (or adding forced injection). Buy a 4.7l stroker for $2000 and custom make your exhaust and differential bracket, that will make it a beast.

[Franzl66]

I may do the stroker and efi.   As it happens I just gt a running parts eagle with bad tranny for free.   So that motor may just go live at a machine shop

[IowaEagle]

IF, I ever went 4.0., which I probably never will, it would be carbed.

[Baskinator]

Someone else here just got a 4.7 stroker from these guys, $2,035 and 100,000 mile warranty (so long as you have certain tuning done at a shop).

https://www.sandjengines.com/rebuilt-engines/1995-JEEP-WRANGLER

It would probably be just as expensive to do it yourself, or even more expensive, without a warranty to back yourself up.

If you don't have emissions testing in your area, you could go with a GM TBI setup from warrperformance on eBay. Just message them with your application and they will put together a kit for you. They quoted me $640 for one with an HEI distributor (no spark or trans  control), and it would take a couple weeks to throw together. I think the only thing you need for that is the throttle body adapter to 2bbl intake.

This place I also just found has a cheaper kit than Howell, and it includes everything + spark control or the ability to use your Duraspark ignition. I'm not sure if they have an emission sticker, it says to message them with emissions applications.

http://www.affordable-fuel-injection.com/ixxocart/products/AMC_Jeep_Complete_TBI_System_w_Distributor-1-7.html

[Draekon]

Even with emissions testing, you should be able to get away with a TBI setup.  I doubt they would look close enough to see that you are running TBI and not a carb setup, and the TBI will theoretically run cleaner.

[Baskinator]

It's not a problem with sniffer testing. However, certain places require a visual inspection, so it's their job to look closer. If they don't see a pulse-air system (for pre '85 Eagles I think), it's a dead giveaway.

I agree, the emissions from a TBI is probably better than even the best working carbed 258 with working emissions equipment. Even if it is though, none of that matters under law unless it has the sticker to prove it. Shops in my county will not easily overlook these things, and a 30 year old car only makes them look closer.

That being said, if you can make a setup that looks even remotely close to the original system with egr, pulse air, etc in place, you can potentially get away with it. Heck, the air pump doesn't even need a belt, it just has to be in the right place and look like an air pump.

This gets me a little more worried since the Eagle is my daily driver and needs to pass when I send it in, but I wouldn't want to risk spending ~$1000 on a conversion and not being able to drive it for lack of a sticker.

[vangremlin]

Even with emissions testing, you should be able to get away with a TBI setup.  I doubt they would look close enough to see that you are running TBI and not a carb setup, and the TBI will theoretically run cleaner.

In an emissions testing area, if you try to sneak the TBI by them, you would still have to maintain all the other smog stuff, or be faced with possibly failing the visual inspection.  If you go with a kit like the Howell, it comes with a sticker that says it is CARB (California Air Resources Board) legal,  which would allow you to remove just about all the emissions equipment.  This is important if you do something like a full 4.0 engine swap, or even a 4.0 head swap, as I think it would be difficult to retrofit the emissions equipment to a 4.0 engine or head.  And that's where you get the real power improvements.

If you do a DIY TBI installation, you can probably still do away with most of the emissions equipment, but to be on the safe side you would need to get it inspected and approved by the Man, and I'm not sure how up to speed they are on a swap like this.

All this being said, sometimes you can go for your emissions test, the kid at the station doesn't know what the heck to look for under the hood, and as long as you pass on the numbers, you have a cat, and your gas cap passes, you're good to go!

[Baskinator]

I vaguely recall someone saying you could buy the sticker from Howell for a couple hundred dollars, or they had it free on their website or something. However, I haven't been able to find anything like this, and I wouldn't think they'd want to give away the biggest selling point to their expensive kit. I wish I could get one though so I could buy a kit for almost half the cost and legally pass emissions 

[Draekon]

Even with emissions testing, you should be able to get away with a TBI setup.  I doubt they would look close enough to see that you are running TBI and not a carb setup, and the TBI will theoretically run cleaner.

In an emissions testing area, if you try to sneak the TBI by them, you would still have to maintain all the other smog stuff, or be faced with possibly failing the visual inspection.  If you go with a kit like the Howell, it comes with a sticker that says it is CARB (California Air Resources Board) legal,  which would allow you to remove just about all the emissions equipment.  This is important if you do something like a full 4.0 engine swap, or even a 4.0 head swap, as I think it would be difficult to retrofit the emissions equipment to a 4.0 engine or head.  And that's where you get the real power improvements.

If you do a DIY TBI installation, you can probably still do away with most of the emissions equipment, but to be on the safe side you would need to get it inspected and approved by the Man, and I'm not sure how up to speed they are on a swap like this.

All this being said, sometimes you can go for your emissions test, the kid at the station doesn't know what the heck to look for under the hood, and as long as you pass on the numbers, you have a cat, and your gas cap passes, you're good to go!

They do also look for an O2 sensor, air injection system, and EGR valve.  But all of the components can be left on when switching to TBI.  So to anyone looking under the hood, unless they know exactly what a carter bbd carb looks like (in which case they probably don't care about enhancing modifications), they won't know that you are running TBI and not a carb.
The O2 sensor is needed for the TBI system, and the AIR system is good for maintaining the catalytic converter.  I don't know how many cars used an EGR valve with a TBI setup, but it shouldn't hurt anything.

I've taken my eagle through with a motorcraft carb and open element filter, and they didn't have any problem with it.  They just looked for the key components.

[vangremlin]

They do also look for an O2 sensor, air injection system, and EGR valve.  But all of the components can be left on when switching to TBI.  So to anyone looking under the hood, unless they know exactly what a carter bbd carb looks like (in which case they probably don't care about enhancing modifications), they won't know that you are running TBI and not a carb.
The O2 sensor is needed for the TBI system, and the AIR system is good for maintaining the catalytic converter.  I don't know how many cars used an EGR valve with a TBI setup, but it shouldn't hurt anything.

I've taken my eagle through with a motorcraft carb and open element filter, and they didn't have any problem with it.  They just looked for the key components.

That's good to know about the MC making it through the test.  I was talking to my friend yesterday that used to have an SX/4, he said he was missing almost all of his emissions gear, and they still passed him!

And you are correct, the TBI alone probably won't set off any alarms.  My comments were mostly going to somebody that wanted to swap the engine or the head, and wanted to maintain the appearance of a stock engine.  I think it would be hard to attach most of the emissions components if you did those upgrades.  And as Baskinator said, you'd hate to spend a lot of money on improving your car, and then having it not pass the visual inspection.

Good conversation!!

[Franzl66]

The gm style efi can require lots of tuning in custom applications.    The kit from fast that's available at summit is self tuning and supports up to 600hp. It's a similar kit used on xtreme 4x4 on a350.  It takes about 2 hours to install.


And emissions.  Ya this is Ohio.  There's none of that or inspection