AMC Eagle Den Forum
The Shop => Question and Answer => Topic started by: westin on January 23, 2016, 06:42:50 PM
-
Well I put the rebuilt carb in the Eagle today. It idled for a good hour or so ..no problems. I moved it around putting into drive and reverse. Did fine. I went out to check it again a couple of hours later. It ran for about 5 minutes and then suddenly died. Its hard to start up again and makes a weird whirring sound when trying to start. This has been happening for some time now. It has died going about 45 mph up a slight incline. It also died going up an icy mountain road where I started flying down the hill backwards nearly killing myself! It dies at random times. Here is a list of recent repairs I had paid for or done myself. I cannot figure it out! Is it the pump? Fuel lines? Vacuum leaks? This is such a frustration I want to roll it off a cliff.
Replaced in-line fuel filter, spark plugs, distributor cap, ignition coil, pcv valve, got the timing adjusted, new air filter, battery, rebuilt the carburetor.
What would be the next step? Any help on this matter would be greatly appreciated. And thank you to all of those who have offered their advice already.
:o
-
I've had bad ignition modules (the square aluminum-looking thing on your right fender well) do that before (croaking at random times).
-
DID you buy the carb new or refurbed?
If so, either way, you need to take it apart yourself, check/set the float, check that the check balls are the correct sizes, BIG and small. You will have to drill out the idle tubes a little and check the top end accel pump and vac pump
I ordered a new one, and I made the mistake of NOT checking this out. start there, and go from there.
-
Have you checked the fuel flow and pressure? There is also a restricter in the fuel overflow hose from the fuel filter that sometimes gets thrown out when the hose is relaced and causes problems.
-
If it's just shutting off out of no where and being hard to start, it does sound like the ignition module on the fender.
-
Hey Jayramb I rebuilt the carb, I believe everything should be in working order there. I am going to go ahead and buy the ignition control module. The symtpoms are pretty dang close to what has been going on! I hope this does it! The Eagle has been landed for far too long now! I will let you guys know if this fixes it!
:eagle:
-
It's good to have a spare regardless. It's probably too late but I would buy the genuine Motorcraft module. The cheaper after markets may not last as long. I had one from Standard Motor Products bad right out of the box. If you have the "blue grommet" box I can get you the Ford part number. The grommet can be seen where the wires come out the bottom of the box. Blue with two plugs was the most common.
-
Here you go. It is DY893 for the Ford blue grommet module. I have used these in my '86 Eagle with great results. Link for RockAuto:
http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/moreinfo.php?pk=385933&cc=1125920&jnid=653&jpid=7 (http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/moreinfo.php?pk=385933&cc=1125920&jnid=653&jpid=7)
-
Ditto on what MacDude said; buy a spare!! I have spares in all of my AMC's that use them; and have used the spares 3 times in the last 10 years to get me off the side of the road.
-
It's good to have a spare regardless. It's probably too late but I would buy the genuine Motorcraft module. The cheaper after markets may not last as long. I had one from Standard Motor Products bad right out of the box. If you have the "blue grommet" box I can get you the Ford part number. The grommet can be seen where the wires come out the bottom of the box. Blue with two plugs was the most common.
Buy the HEAVY DUTY MODULE. I bought the 'regular' ones, they pooped out! O'Reilly had a lifetime warranty on the one they sell.
-
Just a shot in the dark here . Do you have a catalytic converter ? If so is it plugged up?
-
Crazy, how come these things crap out all the time? My dad picked me up a "Master Pro" ignition module from O'reilly's today. It was 35 bucks..the cheaper of the two. If it can get this thing going I won't even care if its the cheapo one. At least I will know the problem and how to remedy if/when it happens again. I wish I would have got the better one though..but I need to get my wheels back so I will just put this one in.I really hope this does the trick, thanks for the input fellas! Tomorrow will be the moment of truth...
-
could be a dirty fuel tank clogging the sock filter in the gas tank
-
Well, I put in the module and the Eagle fired right up. I let it run 3 different idles for about a half an hour each from cold to operating temp. Only once did it not start immediately. It did sound like it wasn't idling very smoothly but that could be another issue. It did sound like it wanted to die once but I gave it a little gas and adjusted the idle screw a little bit. (I still haven't made the exact adjustments on the idle after rebuilding the carb- I hope to get a tachometer and a fuel pressure gauge to see if I can hone this in a little more). Overall, it never died though! I am going to test it a few more times and then take it out on the road- I live in the mountains and the roads are real bad right now so want to make sure its ready to go so I won't go flying down an icy road with a dead car again! I will let you know if it passed the test. I think this may have fixed it though!
-
Do you have a copy of the IS-12e service letter?? Its the one that shows how to adjust all the carb external adjustments. If you don't have it, shoot me your email addy and I'll send you a .pdf of it. Did you say you drilled out the idle bleed tubes per the AMC service bulletin??
-
I am not sure what you mean by the "IS-12e service letter"- if you mean the service chart for the rebuild kit I do still have it. I also have the AMC Service Manual. I never did drill out the tubes because the manual strongly suggested against it. I know alot of others have to their car I just didn't think I needed to since it ran great in the past. I just ran fishing line in them and flossed them, sprayed carb cleaner inside, soaked them in berrymans, washed em out and sprayed compressed air through them. The eagle has been idling pretty rough (though it hasn't died). Tomorrow, I am going on the hunt for vacuum leaks and check the spark plug wires. I think the module definitely helped.. I think there is another underlying issue though. :/
-
The AMC IS-12e letter actually superseded the adjustment procedure in the factory service manuals.
The AMC Service letter advising to drill out the idle bleed tubes was specifically for curing a rough idle & stalling condition in the BBD carbs. I've done it on all of the 200+ BBDs' I've been through, and it does cure a multitude of BBD issues. Look down the carb while at warm idle and see if you see any raw drops of fuel coming from the venturis. If you see said drips, the idle bleeds may be the issue.
-
I will check it today.. If they are dripping, would you recommend drilling it out with an .032 " bit? I don't have a dremmel.. could I use a screw driver? Seems a delicate procedure.. lol
-
Its just the bottom of the tubes you drill out (but I bet you knew that); and its kinda-sorta-delicate-ish. Anything from .028 to .032 will do fine (I use an .030 bit in a pin vise I got at a hobby shop).
You want the IS-12e letter??
-
hi, amc of houston, I would like that IS-12 letter as welll, please email at [email protected], thanks, gz
-
How for down should you drill out the tubes?
-
You are drilling from the bottom up, and only drilling out the "pinched" area of the bottom of the tube. So you are only drilling up about 3/32 of an inch or so; not far at all.
-
It looked like it wasn't dripping but I might drill 'em out because I am desperate to find any way to make it run smoother. I am getting a tachometer, a fuel pressure gauge and some new spark plug wires and see if I can narrow down the cause a little more. I would like that PDF file on the service chart if you got it. My email is [email protected] Thanks :)
-
File sent. Good luck with it.
-
Good call on the idle tubes. I wouldn't use a dremel. The tubes are soft and you can almost twist the bit in your fingers to cut through them. Give them a shot of cleaner after drilling.
I hope that module change solved your issue. I will stand behind my recommendation of the genuine Ford replacement. They designed it and are still making a buck off selling their own, so why would they give the exact specs to aftermarket sellers? The Ford module is actually heavier than the others, so there must be something different about it. I think my Ford modules were about $47. But after dealing with that faulty new module from Standard and nearly being killed on the highway and embarrassed in front of my passengers I figured the extra $10 was worth it ;).
To add to the filter sock comment, I had the pickup become lodged with crap from the tank when I removed the filter sock once. Car would go fine on the flat, but when I started to put a load on the motor (start going up a hill) it would begin to cut out like you were flipping a switch. Sometimes it would keep going, sometimes it would stall and then start back up. Typically with a bad module, it'll just quit and won't re-start until the module cools down. It'll do that until it quits for good and never restarts.
The bum module I had ran great around town for a day, then as I was on the highway it would start to stumble and misfire out of no where. I thought it was a fuel issue but when I swapped a spare module in it cured it instantly.
-
The plug on the module connector gets corroded and causes issues too. If the ground from the body to the battery negative is missing then feedback goes through the module and it's internal ground wire in the harness to burn modules out. The "factory" (Dealer) test for module was to run it to operating temp then hang an incandescent trouble light on the module a couple minutes, pull it away and thump the module with a rubber mallet 3 times 5 seconds apart. Stall = faulty module.
-
I got a bunch of tools for diagnosing and adjusting issues in the Eagle so hopefully I can make it run a little smoother. I am going to drill out the tubes, got some premium spark plug wires, a tachometer and hand vacuum pump for carb adjustments (to IS12e's specs) as well as a fuel pressure gauge. I went ahead and got these items to have on hand for future diagnosis. I was curious if anyone knew how to go about diagnosing the fuel pressure on the Eagle. I don't know why but I could not find ANYTHING on the fuel pump or fuel pressure in my service manual!? I don't know if I am looking in the wrong spot or what but there is very little mention of these components. Is there even A schrader valve on the fuel line in the AMCs ?What should the PSI be?
-
There is no valve. Fuel pressure is very low for the carb, maybe 3-5psi. The 3-port fuel filter actually helps regulate the pressure by allowing excess fuel and any vapor to exit via the return line port, which needs to be rotated to the 12 o'clock position (it's on the end facing the carb). Too much pressure can force fuel past the inlet valve and throw off the level in the bowl/spill over and out the sides of the carb. It's kind of a self-regulating system. Not too complex.
-
The plug on the module connector gets corroded and causes issues too. If the ground from the body to the battery negative is missing then feedback goes through the module and it's internal ground wire in the harness to burn modules out. The "factory" (Dealer) test for module was to run it to operating temp then hang an incandescent trouble light on the module a couple minutes, pull it away and thump the module with a rubber mallet 3 times 5 seconds apart. Stall = faulty module.
This is a good point regarding the ground. The black wire running from the module to the distributor pickup (it runs next to the orange and violet, twisted wires) is the module ground. It makes this ground through the grundgy, dirty distributor base. On my Eagles I tapped an extra ground lead into that wire.
-
Thanks for the info. I will check the ground wire. Just got the tubes drilled out. It seems to be running better and better. It still hasn't died but is having a real hard time starting.I try to turn it over and it makes a loud whirring sound and won't turn over takes about 5 times. I replaced the starter a few years back. I will check the wires to it and as well as put on the new plug wires and see if this does the trick!
-
The hard to start part sounds like the starter is loose or it's drive clutch is worn out so it slips. (hopefully not a worn out flexplate)
Can you do a cellphone quick vid of it?
-
Here is a video I took yesterday before I replaced the spark plug wires and made adjustments to the carb. This video is the only time I have heard it sound THIS bad. Usually, it just makes the whirring sound not the additional kind of "grinding" sound. After I made the adjustments and put the wires on it started right up. I also cleaned some bad connections on the solenoid which may have helped some. I also tested the solenoid and it seemed to be getting juice through it and no changes in ohms from the S terminal test to the ground test, Only later once it was warmed up did it have a hard time starting again. Again, this video is the most severe I have ever heard it..compared to times before and after this video.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=9K5fc-emE5U
-
Yeah; that's just the starter drive kicking out. Time for another starter if its under warranty; or just replace the drive.
-
Check the starter bolts aren't loose. When you get a replacement drive or starter, make sure it's as long in the tooth as a quarter.
-
If you stand over the car with a small can a fuel or seafoam etc. and steadily dump will it stay running? if so the issue could be specifically the carb. Ive heard of the new & replacement carters being a hit or miss with reliability. After replacing my carter with a reman it took two other rebuilds to get it to actually cooperate with the car.
-
The EAGLE is flying like it just got golden wings!! I replaced the starter and found that some of the teeth on the starter's pinion had been worn down pretty bad. The tune up, carb rebuild, carb modification (drilling tubes) and ignition module all helped immensely. It starts up and runs great now! Now I need to get a new paint job and really want to get a lift!! I want to thank all of you for your extremely helpful advice I wish I could buy you all a beer! Thanks a ton! I look forward to reading more of these forums especially on lifts ( I am thinking just a minor lift without SAS) Anyways, wish you all the best! Thanks! :hello2: :occasion14: :blob1: :rotfl:
:eaglebig:
-
Congrats on getting it running so well! Way to be persistent!
-
Double-congrats!! I'll have a beer tonight and send you a bill!! :occasion14:
-
Glad to hear! Good on ya for sticking it out!