AMC Eagle Den Forum
The Shop => Project Cars => Topic started by: eagle503 on May 05, 2011, 02:53:32 AM
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Well I knew it when I got it I've been trying to ignore it and fix other things, focus on the good but I think its time.
My head gasket is toast. I've got steam under the valve cover, Its running bad and I think now that the good weather is hear it is time to file this one under project cars and get it done and over with. See when I got this thing the entire cooling system was fubar and I just kinda figured the head gasket would need to be done but I have been avoiding the complete breakdown. Its not that I can't handle it I've rebuilt a couple motors and out of what I've worked on I will take the Eagle any day nice and roomy compared to me wife's ford escort which dropped a valve seat ring a month after purchase. I can definitely use any advice you guys have to give on the order of the breakdown as I have no book for this beast. Torque specs and stuff like that would be great. And can I get away with using my head bolts over or is a new set necessary? What ells should I look at while I'm in there? I'm pretty sure the former owner used a lot of stop leak on it and I have coolant flow issues this thing gets pretty hot fast.
So I will be sure to get my camera greasy taking lots of pictures and I will post them here as well as add some that Ive already taken.
(http://i687.photobucket.com/albums/vv240/dodecafarm/P1040250.jpg)
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Some members guarantee you need new head bolts. If done correctly they can be reused I have on three occasions with no problems. The only headbolts that need to be replaced are torque to yield bolts. These are not. Make sure your head and deck. Is not warped.
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I am looking at a 4.2 out of a 87 Wrangler should every thing be the same?
I don't have the "milky" oil, I changed it to get a good look at it. But there is steam building up under the valve cover and a lot of moister in the exhaust,is there something else that would cause this?
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maybe a 4.0 and build the "budget" stroker out of the 2 engines
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maybe a 4.0 and build the "budget" stroker out of the 2 engines
Details?....
Is this just a bolt up procedure or is there fab work involved?It mite be easier to get a 4.0 there seem to be a lot around hear.
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Kind of a bolt in deal. You need to decide if you are going to go carb or efi.
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what about just using the 4.0 head on my block?
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Before you go nuts and start ripping stuff out, how do you know what you are calling steam is from the coolant? Have you done a compression test or a coolant system pressure test? Moisture out of the exhaust is common when an engine is warming up. Is the moisture in the exhaust constant? If you don't have milky oil than what you are calling steam may just be condensation burning off. Do you have antifreeze in the radiator and if so does your exhaust smell "sweet"? What do you're plugs look like? There will usually be deposits on the spark plugs if coolant is getting in the cylinder. Start with the basics and go from there. I've seen too many people on different forums rip their engines apart from false diagnosing when it isn't necessary.
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Making a stroker would be a real cool thing to do. It is a fairly straight forward thing, you take a 258 Crankshaft and put it in a Jeep motor. You can also take the 258 connecting rods along with the crankshaft, but you would need special forged pistons then.
There are a lot of things to know before you do this, such as the crankshaft from a 258 engine is 1cm longer than the 242 Jeep crankshaft. So if you were to use your harmonic balancer from your Eagle, it would be okay, but if you were to use the Jeep harmonic balancer, you would need to make a 1cm spacer piece in front of the harmonic balancer.
You can use the stock Jeep camshaft and save a lot of money, but if you want power, there are performance 242 cams on the internet.
As for fuel injection, that is a hard thing to do (in my opinion). There are members here who have done it, and the person I recommend to ask is Tougeagle. I asked him once on how to do it, and he gave me a very detailed write-up on it. It would involve you putting in a crank position sensor on your transmission and tapping into your Eagle's wiring harness with a Jeep OBDII Computer, or other Fuel Injection software. But ask Tougeagle, he would know more.
EDIT: I would like to add that the Jeep 242 engine would bolt right up to your tranny, but you would have to make some adjustments with the battery tray. As the fan is offset on a Jeep motor, and would hit where it is right now on your Eagle. You would also have to use your Eagle oil pan, as it is specially made to fit around all of the four wheel drive hardware. You would also use your Eagle's motor mounts.
THIS SHOULD BE RESEARCHED THROUGHLY! Just make sure you do it right and on everything the first time! If you want to know more and read a step by step write up on a VERY successful stroker transformation, click here: From Junker To Stroker (http://www.angelfire.com/my/fan/stroker.html)
You can read this for more info as well:
Joshpit's 4.0L Engine Swap (http://www.amceaglenest.com/~iowaeagl/guide/index.php?title=Joshpit%27s_4.0_Swap_Article)
And this:
Can I swap in a Chrysler 4.0? (http://www.amceaglenest.com/~iowaeagl/guide/index.php?title=Can_I_swap_in_a_Chrysler_4.0%3F)
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Don't worry I am not the type to "go nuts and start ripping stuff out" I have a lot of thinking to do before i pick up the tools. The oil fill plug usually has milky residue on it as well as the plate under the pcv valve,when the engine is warm(hot) with the plug removed there is steam visible coming out of the oil fill hole ,it actually blew the plug out on a test drive. the dip stick is clean and when i drained the oil it looked good.I need to get equipped to pressure test this thing.The plugs look ok.When i got it it had been run dry and over heated I put a new cooling system back in and got it running but it still runs hot. the only other thing could be the valve cover bolts but i was very careful and checked my work i am confident that i did not go to deep.I guess if i decide to put a new gasket kit in i will check them again.There is antifreeze in it but my cat is gutted and the stepper moter in my carb is nonfunctional so the exhaust smells like crap.when i had the tail pipe off I ran it for about three minutes and it puffed and dripped constantly.
So i still have a bit to figure out and then spend some time waying out my options before i get going on this. Rite now it runs and drives but is not to healthy and hard to start. I have been looking for a donor rig for cheap in my area just waiting for the rite one. I am curios what the benefit of just a 4.0 head would be?So as always I appreciate all the input i can get.
Thanks
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I am curios what the benefit of just a 4.0 head would be?So as always I appreciate all the input i can get.
Thanks
A 4.0L head would give a great performance boost, as what I have heard from many people who have done it. Some have left the stock carb on with the 258 intake, and took off the fuel injection, and some have went the extra mile and put in a computer and fuel injection. But like I said before, that would involve tapping into your current Eagle wiring harness and putting in a crank position sensor, and so forth.
But the 4.0L head would give a great boost of power, as the inlet ports are at a smooth angle, whereas the 4.2L head inlet ports are at a 90 degree angle. It allows better flow of the air/fuel mixture, better atomization of the fuel, and better compression.
The 4.0L exhaust manifold would bolt up along with your 258 intake if you choose to put a carb on. (Some have had difficulties making them come together, others not)
Tougeagle really knows what he's talking about. He has done the 4.0L head swap. Here is write up by him on the Eaglepedia: Tougeagle's 4.0L Head Swap (http://Tougeagle's 4.0L Headswaphttp://www.amceaglenest.com/~iowaeagl/guide/index.php?title=Great_Tips_from_tougeagle)
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No need for new pistons. Use the 4.0 piston.
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No need for new pistons. Use the 4.0 piston.
I have read though that you would need new special forged pistons with the 258 connecting rods. Says on the From Junker to Stroker write-up.
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Not what I did. I used 4.0 pistons to sit on the 4.2 rods.
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Not what I did. I used 4.0 pistons to sit on the 4.2 rods.
Oh ok, good to know. Working out good for you then?
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Chirps tire into 3rd. 1st spins 2nd squeals. Won't even mention 4ths top end. Been 3 years 20k miles.
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The 4.0 head swap is simple, inexpensive and very nice. More power, better economy and cheaper than rebuilding existing head. I have done this on many Jeeps and have always been pleased. I recommend ensuring you have a good fuel delivery system 1st. No need for EFI, too many great bolt on options, next I alwaysupgrade the ignition. TFI or HEI (I prefer TFI) then I always do the head (once everything is dialed and set) Of course if you think you need head work, that might change the order of priorities. I have the complete head write-up/install instructions. email me if you want it.
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Mine is msd 6a sparked.
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I am curios what the benefit of just a 4.0 head would be?So as always I appreciate all the input i can get.
Thanks
A 4.0L head would give a great performance boost, as what I have heard from many people who have done it. Some have left the stock carb on with the 258 intake, and took off the fuel injection, and some have went the extra mile and put in a computer and fuel injection. But like I said before, that would involve tapping into your current Eagle wiring harness and putting in a crank position sensor, and so forth.
But the 4.0L head would give a great boost of power, as the inlet ports are at a smooth angle, whereas the 4.2L head inlet ports are at a 90 degree angle. It allows better flow of the air/fuel mixture, better atomization of the fuel, and better compression.
The 4.0L exhaust manifold would bolt up along with your 258 intake if you choose to put a carb on. (Some have had difficulties making them come together, others not)
Tougeagle really knows what he's talking about. He has done the 4.0L head swap. Here is write up by him on the Eaglepedia: Tougeagle's 4.0L Head Swap (http://Tougeagle's 4.0L Headswaphttp://www.amceaglenest.com/~iowaeagl/guide/index.php?title=Great_Tips_from_tougeagle)
I have been lagging behind in getting all the pictures posted in it :( Sorry about that... until I get them done you can refer to the projects section to find them.
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Chirps tire into 3rd. 1st spins 2nd squeals. Won't even mention 4ths top end. Been 3 years 20k miles.
I read that you have to overbore to 4.9 or 5.0 liters to use 4.0 pistons. Is that true?
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Why? Think about it. 4.0 block..................... throw in the crank and rods from a 4.2..................plug and play. Pistons stay natural to the 4.0. The only change is the lower end so...................... bearings and hopefully you miked to your crank.
So nothing to buy in a sense except bearings to match your crank.
Now that is the cheap way. Mine had work to check and polish crank line bore balance head work. I bought no new parts cept the head work. I just needed a polish to my crank. So I really could have used the old bearings on the crank.
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Why? Think about it. 4.0 block..................... throw in the crank and rods from a 4.2..................plug and play. Pistons stay natural to the 4.0. The only change is the lower end so...................... bearings and hopefully you miked to your crank.
So nothing to buy in a sense except bearings to match your crank.
Now that is the cheap way. Mine had work to check and polish crank line bore balance head work. I bought no new parts cept the head work. I just needed a polish to my crank. So I really could have used the old bearings on the crank.
Oh, nevermind, I'm thinking 4.2 block. Of course the 4.0 pistons fit right in. Using the 4.0 rods requires more expensive modifications.
still far more expensive than a head swap if rebuilding the motor properly.
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I am looking at a 4.2 out of a 87 Wrangler should every thing be the same?
I don't have the "milky" oil, I changed it to get a good look at it. But there is steam building up under the valve cover and a lot of moister in the exhaust,is there something else that would cause this?
yes, there is residual moisture in the oil from blowby, as the products of combustion are CO2 and water, and that is seen when lifting the cap on a hot engine sometimes. Moisture in the exhaust is the result of a good burn. This does not in any way suggest that you have a bad head gasket. you need to do a compression test. Check your coolant when cold for the smell of exhaust or gasoline.
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I really appreciate all the input guys.
I feel like the best place for me to start is the carb's stepper motor since it is not working and could be the source of my heat issue. Can i get the carb to function with out the stepper? The N-U-T-T-E-R bypass tells me to disconnect it is why I ask. I took the stepper out and sprayed it down with carb cleaner then put it back in, nothing seemed wrong with it but i have no idea how it would look and act if it was rite. Does the stepper come apart? I did not want to force it and brake it so i didn't try to hard. It is Still not working.
I found this jeep web site that explains how to build this diagnostic tool http://home.sprynet.com/~dale02/diagtool.htm (http://home.sprynet.com/~dale02/diagtool.htm) I think it will be helpful if I build one. At least then I will know if the stepper has input.
Well that's where I'm at.
Thanks Guys!
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Gather as much data as you can before replacing parts, a good diagnosis goes a long way. As does a multimeter. Extremely valuable for diagnosing stuff like this as it will tell you if the circuit is complete or not, and whether or not you have power where you should or shouldn't.
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Hesco has a crank position sensor adapter....of course Hesco=Expensive..its around $280.00! But I gotta say they sure have alot of cool stuff for these things.
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I have power to the plug for the stepper, but the stepper is bad I pulled it out and it wont move in and out without a lot of effort. I put it in the mid range and put it back in and it seems to run a little better but still hot n rough. I have a post about the stepper going more info there...
http://forums.amceaglenest.com/index.php?topic=35643.msg284901#msg284901 (http://forums.amceaglenest.com/index.php?topic=35643.msg284901#msg284901)