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Author Topic: Random Intermittent Death  (Read 8269 times)

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Offline DaemonForce

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Random Intermittent Death
« on: October 27, 2011, 08:57:54 PM »
Not sure why this happens but I'm sure we've all experienced this in our Eagles more than any Jeep and far more than any of us really care to explain. I want to address these critical problems since they have been especially plaguing me over the years and always at the worst possible times whether they be at stop signs, the freeway, bridges, right before crawling into parking spots or my personal favorite: in the middle of turning. I'm also becoming curious as to WHY this happens. Thing is, it's not just the place and timing but how it happens that constantly puzzles me.

I would care to note that I have recently changed the fuel pump, fuel filter, fuel line, air filter, water pump and alternator. The parts that are of current suspicion to me are the fuel tank and carb.

What I no longer experience:
Early morning startup, engine starts for a few seconds, dies. I restart and all is well.
Engine does not want to work when going into gear. (Transmission failure)
Engine stalling at cold temperatures. (Air cleaner blowback)
Engine stalling within a few minutes of travel. (Coil failure)

What I experience lately:
Stalling while moving in city traffic.
HARD Stalling during long freeway trips with fog lights on. (Mimics a coil failure for about 5 minutes)
Stalling during freeway trips in very specific areas: 405 WA/OR bridges, Longview, Lacey.
Shift points are higher when cold.

During each of these scenarios my fuel tank is at about the halfway point so that rules out low fuel. My tank is almost empty at the moment and everything seems to run better right now so I'm suspicious of the fuel feeding line at the moment. Anyone care to help me troubleshoot these issues or share their sudden fails? I'm about a day away from dropping my fuel tank and clearing out any possible garbage that may be plugging the lines. If that doesn't fix things, I'm pretty much in the same place I started. x_x
1983 Limited
AMC 258C {R2:27.Jun.13}
Carter 2681 {R2:28.Oct.12}
TorqueFlite A998 {R6: -20.Apr.12}
NP129 {R2:28.Apr.12}
M35-273 {???}
Compression: 0
Corrected Idle: 0RPM

Rebuild:
???

Offline carnuck

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Re: Random Intermittent Death
« Reply #1 on: October 27, 2011, 09:23:54 PM »
Sounds like a module issue. I tested mine by coming home from work, popping the hood and hitting it with a rubber mallet. It was like someone turned the key! Wish I knew where my extras were. (not for me. I'm going EFI next)
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rohnk

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Re: Random Intermittent Death
« Reply #2 on: October 27, 2011, 09:29:20 PM »
I was thinking that maybe something electrical is getting hot. Ignition module like carnuck says, coil, plug wires, could also be a relay (fog light issue).

How about your battery or battery wires? Are they old, new? Might check for a loose or dirty ground connection.

Offline jim

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Re: Random Intermittent Death
« Reply #3 on: October 27, 2011, 09:49:58 PM »
I was experiencing sudden death in turns and sometimes while just driving at 40 - 45 mph.  Replacing the ignition control module resolved that particular issue with both the 83 and 88.  I am aware that a coil can also cause the same problem - get hot, quit, cool off, run again.
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Offline DaemonForce

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Re: Random Intermittent Death
« Reply #4 on: October 27, 2011, 09:52:40 PM »
I was thinking that maybe something electrical is getting hot. Ignition module like carnuck says, coil, plug wires, could also be a relay (fog light issue).
I need to investigate this a bit deeper. I have had several issues related to running my fog lights. I can use them, just seems like I can't use them for longer than 10 minute periods.
How about your battery or battery wires? Are they old, new? Might check for a loose or dirty ground connection.
Recently cleaned and in good condition. They better be. I just replaced the alternator a few weeks ago. I don't need to be doing that again because of bad wires.
1983 Limited
AMC 258C {R2:27.Jun.13}
Carter 2681 {R2:28.Oct.12}
TorqueFlite A998 {R6: -20.Apr.12}
NP129 {R2:28.Apr.12}
M35-273 {???}
Compression: 0
Corrected Idle: 0RPM

Rebuild:
???

Offline eaglefreek

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Re: Random Intermittent Death
« Reply #5 on: October 27, 2011, 10:14:50 PM »
I was thinking that maybe something electrical is getting hot. Ignition module like carnuck says, coil, plug wires, could also be a relay (fog light issue).
I need to investigate this a bit deeper. I have had several issues related to running my fog lights. I can use them, just seems like I can't use them for longer than 10 minute periods.
 
How do you have the fog lights wired? Do have them ran through a relay?
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Offline DaemonForce

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Re: Random Intermittent Death
« Reply #6 on: October 27, 2011, 10:31:19 PM »
How do you have the fog lights wired? Do have them ran through a relay?
That's just it. I'm not the one that set this up so I don't know.
1983 Limited
AMC 258C {R2:27.Jun.13}
Carter 2681 {R2:28.Oct.12}
TorqueFlite A998 {R6: -20.Apr.12}
NP129 {R2:28.Apr.12}
M35-273 {???}
Compression: 0
Corrected Idle: 0RPM

Rebuild:
???

Offline DaemonForce

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Re: Random Intermittent Death
« Reply #7 on: October 28, 2011, 01:13:23 AM »
So how do I go about testing this and where do I get a new replacement?

I probably have a spare somewhere but I have no idea if it's any good.
1983 Limited
AMC 258C {R2:27.Jun.13}
Carter 2681 {R2:28.Oct.12}
TorqueFlite A998 {R6: -20.Apr.12}
NP129 {R2:28.Apr.12}
M35-273 {???}
Compression: 0
Corrected Idle: 0RPM

Rebuild:
???

Offline DaemonForce

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Re: Random Intermittent Death
« Reply #8 on: October 28, 2011, 04:50:51 AM »
Curious, how often do these things fail for you guys?
1983 Limited
AMC 258C {R2:27.Jun.13}
Carter 2681 {R2:28.Oct.12}
TorqueFlite A998 {R6: -20.Apr.12}
NP129 {R2:28.Apr.12}
M35-273 {???}
Compression: 0
Corrected Idle: 0RPM

Rebuild:
???

Offline GRONK

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Re: Random Intermittent Death
« Reply #9 on: October 28, 2011, 08:48:32 AM »
Your stalling in turns and stops/hard starts all sound like carter issies coupled with vacuum issues.

Most of the Jeeps and Eagles that pull in to my shop die right in front of it.  It's on a slight hill where they have to turn and stop at the same time.  I always laugh watchin the owners on the 1st test drive after I install a 2150.  At the 1st stop sign they move 1 foot to the brake and one foot to the gas pedal.  I have to retrain them how to drive normally again using only 1 foot.

The stock coil is also part of the problem but you shouldn;t upgrade it with out upgrading the cap to a larger Ford 300 cap as the AMC cap is too small and will cause crossfire issues if you add a hotter spark.
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Offline wagonmaster

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Re: Random Intermittent Death
« Reply #10 on: October 28, 2011, 09:34:51 AM »
i have to agree with gronk on this. what youre describing sounds alot like a vacuum issue. i upgraded to a hei dist to solve the electrical problem. 

Offline GRONK

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Re: Random Intermittent Death
« Reply #11 on: October 28, 2011, 10:44:17 AM »
The ICM is actually pretty good.  The DuraSpark II is (in my opinion) one of the best ICM's readily available and cost efficient.  I have owned over 20 Jeeps/Jeepsters/Eagles(now) and have rarely seen one fail because it was bad.  I have seen them fail where faulty wiring, splices connections , bad grounds and mismatched alternators/voltage regulators were used but I can also say that for coils, radios, etc.  Remember too that most people are still running on a 20+ year old one and it definitely should be replaces before failure in my opinion.

Lets talk carb/vacuum.  I can set you up with a 2150 that will not only solve the issues but give you more power and better MPG.   2 hours and minus a million vacuum lines later, I can guarantee your stalling problems will be gone.  The carter served its purpose but there are better options available that are far more simple and efficient.
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"Tootie" 1984 Wagon
Owner - GRONK Performance

Offline DaemonForce

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Re: Random Intermittent Death
« Reply #12 on: October 29, 2011, 06:12:46 AM »
Your stalling in turns and stops/hard starts all sound like carter issies coupled with vacuum issues.
I wouldn't be surprised. I know the carb hasn't been rebuilt in years and part of it seems to be malfunctioning. I have two other Carters like it and a Motorcraft to play around with for a while. I'm considering using the Motorcraft but I'd really like to put a Weber on here if I can.
The stock coil is also part of the problem but you shouldn;t upgrade it with out upgrading the cap to a larger Ford 300 cap as the AMC cap is too small and will cause crossfire issues if you add a hotter spark.
I haven't done this yet. I had to get rid of the stock coil about a year ago but never bothered to change caps. It seemed to run just fine afterwards but that was before I had a habit of travelling very long distances. I should probably take care of this before it leaves me stranded.
The ICM is actually pretty good.  The DuraSpark II is (in my opinion) one of the best ICM's readily available and cost efficient.  I have owned over 20 Jeeps/Jeepsters/Eagles(now) and have rarely seen one fail because it was bad.  I have seen them fail where faulty wiring, splices connections , bad grounds and mismatched alternators/voltage regulators were used but I can also say that for coils, radios, etc.  Remember too that most people are still running on a 20+ year old one and it definitely should be replaces before failure in my opinion.
I'll have to try out my spare ICM in a few hours then. This is going to take hours. The ICM plugs are so cakes with grease and dirt that it's going to be difficult.
Lets talk carb/vacuum.  I can set you up with a 2150 that will not only solve the issues but give you more power and better MPG.   2 hours and minus a million vacuum lines later, I can guarantee your stalling problems will be gone.  The carter served its purpose but there are better options available that are far more simple and efficient.
I have a Motorcraft I'm considering using but it would otherwise find its place on one of my 390 engines. Not sure if it's a good idea but it sounds like something worth trying.
1983 Limited
AMC 258C {R2:27.Jun.13}
Carter 2681 {R2:28.Oct.12}
TorqueFlite A998 {R6: -20.Apr.12}
NP129 {R2:28.Apr.12}
M35-273 {???}
Compression: 0
Corrected Idle: 0RPM

Rebuild:
???

Offline JayRamb

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Re: Random Intermittent Death
« Reply #13 on: October 29, 2011, 06:59:15 AM »
I've been having the same issue with my 87, Ella. I was on the freeway the other day and it quit. Like the key turning off. I'm going to be replacing the ECM unit. I have a NEW coil, 8mm wires, and the list goes on. I upgraded the distrib. cap last year with the Ford version. It is just like turning the key off. I had this happen 3 times now. It starts up again, but acts like it won't  start. Embarrasing when it happens.
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1967 Rambler Rebel 4 Door 290 V8 (original family car) Marina Aqua 142K miles
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Offline DaemonForce

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Re: Random Intermittent Death
« Reply #14 on: October 29, 2011, 08:19:54 AM »
It's beyond embarassing, it's extremely dangerous. It may happen to you on the freeway but it happens to me at very nasty areas of the freeway. I need to get this resolved before it starts killing itself in road construction areas or one-lane freeway zones that join other highways. It honestly scares me a bit.
1983 Limited
AMC 258C {R2:27.Jun.13}
Carter 2681 {R2:28.Oct.12}
TorqueFlite A998 {R6: -20.Apr.12}
NP129 {R2:28.Apr.12}
M35-273 {???}
Compression: 0
Corrected Idle: 0RPM

Rebuild:
???

 

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