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Author Topic: The Restoration starts!- '80 Eagle Turbo Diesel  (Read 64823 times)

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80SpiritGT

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Re: The Restoration starts!- '80 Eagle Turbo Diesel
« Reply #45 on: July 31, 2007, 08:27:57 PM »
$1.00 per gallon is not bad. If I could get methanol cheaper I could come close to that.


It does take time to make biodiesel. But it depends heavily on how you refine your processes. I have found alot of the process is set, and walk away. Come back to it when you have time, or when you know its complete and then move on to the next stage.

Example: When I'm in town I stop and pick up oil (5min at best). When I get home I dump oil into 55 gallon drum for settling (another 5min at best). When I have free time I pump oil from drum to biodiesel reactor (not even 5 min). I turn on my heating element and walk away. I know it takes aproximately 45min to heat up. I use this time to fill my methanol can (5min aprox). When I know its hot I come back and titrate (5min at best). Now I add the lye to the methanol and mix (aprox 10min). Now I add the methoxide to the reactor (20min). I like to add it slow as it mixes in much better this way. I have just dumped it all in at once in under 3min and walked away. Now I set my mixing timer for 2hours and walk away. When its done I have to drain the glycerine (under 5min) and pump the biodiesel to a wash can (2-3min at best). Add water and let my air compressor fill for bubble washing (2-3 min at best). Now it takes three stages to wash. Empty the wash barrel for all three stages (less then 10min). Fill wash can for the last two stages (I'll over estimate and say 8min). Pump to dry can (2min). Heat dry can and run for 30min all while I am doing other things. Time invested to dry while at equipment I'll say (20min) for everything including water testing.

Add all numbers in () and it =  100 minutes aproximate time invested in one batch. Now I wash two batches at once because I have a very small reactor. Add in an extra reaction before wash and dry for a full batch in the wash and dry can and you get - about another hour with figuring for grease pick up. Figure 160 minutes for a 30-40 gallon batch with my double reaction time cause of small reactor. If you had a really big say 50-80 gallon reactor you could cut this time down alot because you only have to titrate the grease, mix lye and methanol together, and mix the batch for 2 hours just once.

So you could say approximately 3 hours is invested in 40 gallons. Now, if your reactor is alot bigger, and you factor in two wash cans and two dry cans you could easily double your production and half your time invested. You could easily make 160 gallons and wash half of that one day and wash and dry the rest the next with only investing a weekend leaving yourself time to do other things while your equipment runs by itself.

I have no need for production scale this large so I just tinker. But I will say this. I heated my entire garage all winter long on a 55 gallon drum that I invested less then a weekend in producing. I also was able to dump three 55 gallon drums worth in my house. 55 X 4 = 220 gallons X $3.20 for heating oil = $704 value. I paid $200 for my drum of methanol including drum deposit. $704 - $200 = $504 I saved last winter.

55 gallons of methanol, 12 liters methanol per 60 liter batch = 17.19 batchs X 60 liters a batch = 1031 liters biodiesel per 55 gallon drum. 1031 liters / 3.78 liters per gallon = 272.75 gallons biodiesel per 55 gallon drum methanol. 272.75 gallons fuel X $3.20 heating oil cost = $872.80 value - $150 methanol cost (drum deposit $50) = $722.80 savings.

Factor in 3 hours per 40 gallons biodiesel for an entire 55 gallon drum of methanol  = approximately 20 hours production time. Like I said before, if you have a larger set up you can drastically reduce production times. All in all not including my time I would say I have invested $400 (estimated really high) into my set up and yielded a $720 savings = I'm still ahead $320. Figure into this a second run at $720 savings + $320 after equipment cost from the first run and I have made $1040 worth of saved fuel cost between two 55 gallon drums of methanol. Just in two years just tinkering around in my shop, with approximately 40 hours total production time spent at the equipment during proiduction (not including time away while equipment runs). Now if I wanted to scale up production and get into methanol recovery systems I could really show some numbers. Not bad for screwing around on weekends when there is not much to do. Lets factor in $200 in electric costs for fun and I'm still up $804. And I seriously doubt my small scale plant cost me $60 since I started this experiment. There are farms here that make enough biodiesel in one reaction to fuel the entire farms equipment for three to four days. Now thats large scale production.....

So yes, I will agree it is very time consuming. But, it is also very rewarding. Even if I broke even I would still want to do it. I like recycling something that would normally go to waste. Something I can use to help curb our need for foriegn sources of energy. Plus its a blast, and when your done and you can see it sparkle in the sunlight its enough to give me shivers. Ok, so I'm weird. Everyone here already knows it.   ;)


Sorry for the long post

Offline rollguy

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Re: The Restoration starts!- '80 Eagle Turbo Diesel
« Reply #46 on: July 31, 2007, 09:49:32 PM »


Rollguy...how was the coversion process? Are you glad you did it? did you do it yourself or did you have Lovecraft install it? I personally like Lovecraft for the Mercedes stuff...but I like Greasecar for the Volkswagan stuff.

I installed the kit myself on both the 300CD, and the 190D. It was very easy, and only took a couple of hours each. I am very happy to not have to deal with biodiesel. It is more hassle than it is worth, when all you need to do is filter the WVO and pour it in the tank. The single tank system is much better, as all you do is "Glow & Go". No need to watch a temperature guage or flip any switches. As for  "If you do not get the veggie oil hot enough before it hits the injectors you will destroy the engine", I don't believe a word of it. There are too many Lovecraft systems out there in cars that have driven THOUSANDS of miles without any problems with the engine.
Another problem with making your own biodiesel, is getting rid of the glycerine. It is much easier to just filter (you would need to do that with biodiesel), pour, and drive!
« Last Edit: July 31, 2007, 09:58:04 PM by rollguy »
1980 Eagle Turbodiesel Wagon (only 2 known to exist as of 2008)- 7-7-2011 Flight to it's new nest @ Rambler Ranch
1983 Eagle Wagon  Tan over Copper
1982 Eagle SX4 "ALTREGL"  (avatar photo)
1982 Eagle 4 Door Sedan  Copper over Satin Black
1985 Eagle Sport Wagon October 2007 ROTM (SOLD)
4 Biofuel powered Benzs ('98 E300, '82 300 CD, '82 300 TD (wagon), '80 240 D)
1983 GMC Van (6.2 Diesel)
1985 Mitsubishi pickup (2.3 Turbodiesel)

80SpiritGT

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Re: The Restoration starts!- '80 Eagle Turbo Diesel
« Reply #47 on: August 01, 2007, 10:19:15 AM »
I definately agree. It is much better to just filter and fill.

Glycerine isn't too bad. I pour one 5 gallon jug down the septic once a month. The rest goes into a mulch pit of hay, yard clippings, and leaves. Makes an awesome fertalizer.

But yes, definately a pain in the rear.

1982AMCCONCORD

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Re: The Restoration starts!- '80 Eagle Turbo Diesel
« Reply #48 on: August 01, 2007, 01:33:55 PM »
cool Roll Guy...I was just wondering how it went...I really want to do this...I am not sure when I will be able to but I want to do it. Gas has gotten so expensive and I would really like not to pay for it anymore...even if it were only for a year...or even two years...that would allow me to pay off a lot of bills with the money I saved in not paying for gas any longer. I just want to do it long enough to send that 140 or more dollars a month to my credit card bill and maye be even get a ahead on a student loan or the mortgage even. I have to do something. I can see buying a Merc. benz that uis in good shape for 4 or 5K...then dropping 1000 on the conversion kit and the 500 on the filtering stuff....maybe even let somebody install the conversion because I don't know Merc. Benz very well.

80Spirit...I sure wouldn't want to spend all the time making BioD...it sounds too time consuming to me...I think the WVO would be slightly easier and I can get waste oil from my friends family...they have two resturants and since I have known him since I was very young...I am confident they would just hand it over and not even care since they already told me that they have to PAY to get rid of it anyway. Its a win win situation for me. I hope to be able to do it next year...I would have to sell my Caprice and locate a good quality Merc. Benz before I can move forward. I did find a decent one on Auto Trader...but right now I don't have the money. I am considering taking out a loan from the bank for $7000 to buy a car and pay for the conversion and supplies...it would be a manageable amount to pay back when compared to 10-15K on a new car that I will still need to pay for gasoline to put in it. I am trying to save some money too! Times are tight when you pay almost 200 a month on Gas.
« Last Edit: August 01, 2007, 01:36:32 PM by 1982AMCCONCORD »

80SpiritGT

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Re: The Restoration starts!- '80 Eagle Turbo Diesel
« Reply #49 on: August 01, 2007, 07:35:19 PM »
Actually, the only reason its really worth it to me is I have a blast doing it. I have the time most of the time to tinker with it.

  And its actually alot easier to make the biodiesel then it is to alter a home furnace burner to burn the WVO. At least it is for me. I've looked at plans, messed with spare burners in the shop, and even tried to copy waste oil burners I see friends use. Its not as easy as it looks. It gets really cold here and my mother was concernd with the reliability and safety of a home fabricated furnace burner. My grandad lives with us and he's over 80, and he was on hospice last winter. She wouldn't let me near the furnace. She was actually really nervous about the biodiesel mix I was adding to the tank. But I assured her the only danger was to the pump wich is a $20 part I can replace. So, needless to say I make the biodiesel primarily for heating purposes. It is much more reliable to make the fuel then mess with a homemade waste oil burner set up for WVO. Especially since I have a forced hot air furnace. If I was running a boiler set up I could find a waste oil burner to fit my application fairly easily. Actually, we plan on going this route in under ten years.

If I had a diesel car I would most likely burn the filterd WVO. But, since I already make the biodiesel for heating, it would be easier to just dump my heating oil stock in my car tank then mess with the expense of a WVO kit for my car/truck.

Now, if only I could find a diesel vehicle cheap enouph.....

rollguy - I know you don't believe in the dangers of the WVO kits. But I have seen them destroy engines. And I have seen the insides of the engines after damage (trust me you wouls cringe). I worry about the rarity of your diesel nothing more. But, I do not personally know anything about the practical application of these kits nore am I extremely familiar with the kit you use. And, the people I know that installed the kits locally are not the brightest crowd. I know of one man with a kit he bought and made a few alterations to. He has a Mercedes 300 D and its been going strong for three years. He drives the heck out of the dang thing. He hauls four 55 gallon drums of WVO per trailer load and travels hundreds of miles a week collecting for his personal and commercial use.

I wish you nothing but success. I just hope you know what your doing. It sounds like you have put alot of work and cash into your rig. I sincerely hope to see you driving it for a long time. Maybe in 20 years or less I'll make it out your way and see you at a car show. I'd love to hear you say "Told ya so."


Offline rollguy

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Re: The Restoration starts!- '80 Eagle Turbo Diesel
« Reply #50 on: August 01, 2007, 11:16:44 PM »


  And its actually alot easier to make the biodiesel then it is to alter a home furnace burner to burn the WVO. At least it is for me.

If I had a diesel car I would most likely burn the filterd WVO. But, since I already make the biodiesel for heating, it would be easier to just dump my heating oil stock in my car tank then mess with the expense of a WVO kit for my car/truck.




Yes, making Biofuel for home heating is a great idea. But for  Mercedes Benz cars, there is no easier, cheaper, better system than the Lovecraft WVO system.

Also,  this thread is getting off topic. There is an alternative fuel thread for the Biodiesel / WVO topic.
1980 Eagle Turbodiesel Wagon (only 2 known to exist as of 2008)- 7-7-2011 Flight to it's new nest @ Rambler Ranch
1983 Eagle Wagon  Tan over Copper
1982 Eagle SX4 "ALTREGL"  (avatar photo)
1982 Eagle 4 Door Sedan  Copper over Satin Black
1985 Eagle Sport Wagon October 2007 ROTM (SOLD)
4 Biofuel powered Benzs ('98 E300, '82 300 CD, '82 300 TD (wagon), '80 240 D)
1983 GMC Van (6.2 Diesel)
1985 Mitsubishi pickup (2.3 Turbodiesel)

80SpiritGT

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Re: The Restoration starts!- '80 Eagle Turbo Diesel
« Reply #51 on: August 02, 2007, 11:21:09 AM »
I was thinking that like three posts ago. Sorry, didn't mean to hijack your thread. It just kinda happend.  :P

I have heard very good things about the Lovecraft system. From what I have heard they are a very reliable single tank system with heated filters?
« Last Edit: August 02, 2007, 11:29:09 AM by 80SpiritGT »

1982AMCCONCORD

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Re: The Restoration starts!- '80 Eagle Turbo Diesel
« Reply #52 on: August 02, 2007, 01:00:49 PM »
I'm sorry too. I basically started the whole thing...I just have really been getting into it a lot lately and it was good to talk to some more people about the alternative fuels.

80 Spirit...we can continue our discussion in another thread...BTW...now I see why you mix your own...I can see how awesome it would be for home use...imagine all the money you save!

BTW...where is that alternative fuel thread?
« Last Edit: August 02, 2007, 01:08:06 PM by 1982AMCCONCORD »

80SpiritGT

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Re: The Restoration starts!- '80 Eagle Turbo Diesel
« Reply #53 on: August 02, 2007, 05:22:23 PM »
I opened one in the lobby for biodiesel a few days ago. But I don't think rollguy is talking about that one.

Offline rollguy

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Re: The Restoration starts!- '80 Eagle Turbo Diesel
« Reply #54 on: August 02, 2007, 11:44:19 PM »


I have heard very good things about the Lovecraft system. From what I have heard they are a very reliable single tank system with heated filters?
Yes, 3 parts- booster pump, heated filter, heat exchanger (replaces stock filter).
1980 Eagle Turbodiesel Wagon (only 2 known to exist as of 2008)- 7-7-2011 Flight to it's new nest @ Rambler Ranch
1983 Eagle Wagon  Tan over Copper
1982 Eagle SX4 "ALTREGL"  (avatar photo)
1982 Eagle 4 Door Sedan  Copper over Satin Black
1985 Eagle Sport Wagon October 2007 ROTM (SOLD)
4 Biofuel powered Benzs ('98 E300, '82 300 CD, '82 300 TD (wagon), '80 240 D)
1983 GMC Van (6.2 Diesel)
1985 Mitsubishi pickup (2.3 Turbodiesel)

80SpiritGT

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Re: The Restoration starts!- '80 Eagle Turbo Diesel
« Reply #55 on: August 03, 2007, 04:03:17 PM »
Any pics? Do you have it installed yet?

Offline rollguy

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Re: The Restoration starts!- '80 Eagle Turbo Diesel
« Reply #56 on: August 04, 2007, 12:55:03 PM »
Any pics? Do you have it installed yet?
I have installed 2 systems so far. Here is the system on the 300CD-
http://forums.amceaglenest.com/index.php?topic=9991.0
I don't have a photo of the 190D system, but it is exactly the same.
1980 Eagle Turbodiesel Wagon (only 2 known to exist as of 2008)- 7-7-2011 Flight to it's new nest @ Rambler Ranch
1983 Eagle Wagon  Tan over Copper
1982 Eagle SX4 "ALTREGL"  (avatar photo)
1982 Eagle 4 Door Sedan  Copper over Satin Black
1985 Eagle Sport Wagon October 2007 ROTM (SOLD)
4 Biofuel powered Benzs ('98 E300, '82 300 CD, '82 300 TD (wagon), '80 240 D)
1983 GMC Van (6.2 Diesel)
1985 Mitsubishi pickup (2.3 Turbodiesel)

80SpiritGT

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Re: The Restoration starts!- '80 Eagle Turbo Diesel
« Reply #57 on: August 04, 2007, 04:49:59 PM »
Ah ha! Thank You.  ;D

Offline rollguy

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Re: The Restoration starts!- '80 Eagle Turbo Diesel
« Reply #58 on: November 24, 2007, 04:03:11 PM »
I got some time to do some work on the Eagle this week/end.  I got the interior pieces that I got from Fishmoek installed, and the interior cleaned up.





I started to clean up the engine bay, as many things needed atention.  I moved the oil filter assembly from the battery tray (to re-install the battery there), and mounted it next ti the shock tower. I re-plumbed the oil cooler lines, and transmition cooler lines for a cleaner instalation (the coolers were  rubbing on the crank pulley). I re-routed and cleaned up the wiring in that area.  It also had a very small air cleaner clamped right on the turbo. The plan is to install a duct over the turbo, and put the air cleaner behind it and above the starter. 

I installed a new fuel pump, and re-plumbed the fuel system. I will be installing a Lovecraft Heated Fuel Filter to rum WVO in the future.

I will try to get it started today. I know it has a bad head gasget, so I will be replacing it after I know that it will run.
1980 Eagle Turbodiesel Wagon (only 2 known to exist as of 2008)- 7-7-2011 Flight to it's new nest @ Rambler Ranch
1983 Eagle Wagon  Tan over Copper
1982 Eagle SX4 "ALTREGL"  (avatar photo)
1982 Eagle 4 Door Sedan  Copper over Satin Black
1985 Eagle Sport Wagon October 2007 ROTM (SOLD)
4 Biofuel powered Benzs ('98 E300, '82 300 CD, '82 300 TD (wagon), '80 240 D)
1983 GMC Van (6.2 Diesel)
1985 Mitsubishi pickup (2.3 Turbodiesel)

Offline IowaEagle

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Re: The Restoration starts!- '80 Eagle Turbo Diesel
« Reply #59 on: November 24, 2007, 04:51:40 PM »
You were busy.  Are parts getting difficult to find?
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