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Author Topic: At wits end bleeding the clutch  (Read 393 times)

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Offline trucker79005

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At wits end bleeding the clutch
« on: October 03, 2017, 11:11:39 PM »
 :banghead:  :banghead:I've gone around the world reading on the forum about all things hydraulic clutch. 61 pages worth. And I thought I had a little bit of a clue but I'm still stuck with a couple inches of clutch with what seems like no progress. Here's everything I've done. Maybe someone can give me hope or see what I've done wrong.

I was finally able to just "swing" the brake master cylinder out of the way and with a comment from the FB page was able to get the brake booster out of the way. I had already mounted the new slave cylinder. I figure out what one poster meant about the master cylinder bolts... Hose clamps would have been better than my adventure of trying to get a wrench to sit just right on one side while I ratcheted on the other.

So. Brand new master and brand new slave. Had read the cautions about the old tube but couldn't get one right away and the one I had "seemed" ok so I hooked every thing up.

I figure out how to pull the clutch arm back with a ratchet strap because pushing it with a stick doesn't seem possible for me. Could I mess up the clutch arm pulling it with the strap?? It seems like it doesn't pull perfectly straight.

We try bleeding a couple of ways. pump slowly a couple times and open. Open the bleeder and slowly depress clutch.  Only have a few inches of resistance and the rest of the pedal just swings free. We're getting a lot of black brake fluid out when we put clean stuff in so we quit and try to empty the black stuff out of the master. Ordered the new line from Rock Auto.

FF to today. Install the new line from rock auto. Bleed the same way. Getting some remaining fluid out with a black tint but getting clearer. assuming it was left in master and slave. BUT still only getting a few inches of clutch and now it doesn't swing back like it did before. It only returns the few inches and stops. Any possibility we messed up the master by trying to bleed the system with the old line??

I had a real hard time getting the fittings to not leak and it still seems like they want to seep a little around the line. Can I tighten them too much?
We probably worked on it about 45 minutes this evening and would get good fluid then a row of little bubbles but it doesn't look like anything changed as far as how much pedal had resistance..

I have no idea whether to continue on and hope we're getting somewhere or to take everything back apart and look for problems.

Sorry for such a long post and tia for any help. I'm pretty sure I'm in way over my head. :help:
Laura (Shorty)
1978 AMC Concord 2DR Hatchback w/ Ralley package
1983 AMC Eagle Wagon Limited w/ 5 speed
1971 Ford F250:)

Offline rmick

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Re: At wits end bleeding the clutch
« Reply #1 on: October 04, 2017, 12:22:00 AM »
Take a look at the clutch pedal bracket where the rod connects to the pedal. Make sure the attach point for the rod to the master cylinder is not bent or cracked Had tis problem with mine had to remove the pedal and weld the bracket back into place.
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Offline mo.eagles

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Re: At wits end bleeding the clutch
« Reply #2 on: October 04, 2017, 09:14:56 PM »
If you have a leak at the fitting it can get air in the system . Try to get the connections tight . I once spent 3 hours trying to bleed a Ranger system . Long story you don't want to hear !! I unbolted the slave cyl. and let it hang as low as I could get it and left it over night . The next morning I topped off the master and put it together and all worked great . The air bleed it self out when it had a straight shot . Any high or low spots between slave and master make it very difficult to bleed .
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Offline trucker79005

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Re: At wits end bleeding the clutch
« Reply #3 on: October 05, 2017, 12:26:21 AM »
Take a look at the clutch pedal bracket where the rod connects to the pedal. Make sure the attach point for the rod to the master cylinder is not bent or cracked Had tis problem with mine had to remove the pedal and weld the bracket back into place.

Thanks for the reminder. I'd read where you talked about that before but because mine wasn't completely broken I overlooked it. It is definitely bent enough to be an issue. I'm not sure what the fix will be yet but at least I know part of the problem.
Laura (Shorty)
1978 AMC Concord 2DR Hatchback w/ Ralley package
1983 AMC Eagle Wagon Limited w/ 5 speed
1971 Ford F250:)

Offline trucker79005

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Re: At wits end bleeding the clutch
« Reply #4 on: October 05, 2017, 12:30:16 AM »
If you have a leak at the fitting it can get air in the system . Try to get the connections tight . I once spent 3 hours trying to bleed a Ranger system . Long story you don't want to hear !! I unbolted the slave cyl. and let it hang as low as I could get it and left it over night . The next morning I topped off the master and put it together and all worked great . The air bleed it self out when it had a straight shot . Any high or low spots between slave and master make it very difficult to bleed .

That's what I was assuming... I've been afraid of tightening the fittings too tight but have them cranked down pretty hard right now. Seems like I would have noticed if I would have cross threaded them. The design of the line going into the master may make this one impossible to get a straight shot on but maybe once I get the other issues figured out a overnight sit might be just the ticket..

Thanks for the input!
Laura (Shorty)
1978 AMC Concord 2DR Hatchback w/ Ralley package
1983 AMC Eagle Wagon Limited w/ 5 speed
1971 Ford F250:)

Offline mudkicker715

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Re: At wits end bleeding the clutch
« Reply #5 on: October 05, 2017, 10:08:55 PM »
I swapped a slush box for a manual trans. So everything was new on hydraulics. Also bled it out myself. No issues even with running true duals very very near the slave  just sayingyo sound to have a leak. Maybe?



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Offline rmick

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Re: At wits end bleeding the clutch
« Reply #6 on: October 05, 2017, 11:05:44 PM »
Take a look at the clutch pedal bracket where the rod connects to the pedal. Make sure the attach point for the rod to the master cylinder is not bent or cracked Had tis problem with mine had to remove the pedal and weld the bracket back into place.

Thanks for the reminder. I'd read where you talked about that before but because mine wasn't completely broken I overlooked it. It is definitely bent enough to be an issue. I'm not sure what the fix will be yet but at least I know part of the problem.
You can remove just the clutch pedal from the mount easilly remove the bolt holding it in place and the rod to the master cylinder. Once out straighten the bracket an weld back into place. You can ad gusset to the bracket to prevent it from bending again. once it s back in place you will have more throw and be able to bleed it better with more through.
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Offline carnuck

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Re: At wits end bleeding the clutch
« Reply #7 on: October 11, 2017, 01:31:18 PM »
If the clutch rod isn't pushing straight at the master, it will mess with the plunger inside and cause air to get past the rear seal due to uneven pressure unless you make a suction system to draw the air out of the bottom.
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Offline trucker79005

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Re: At wits end bleeding the clutch
« Reply #8 on: October 28, 2017, 08:12:09 PM »
Thanks to everyone that has responded so far. I can't believe I'm still fighting this thing....

I found another clutch pedal in a junkyard that already had a gusset welded on. The "pin" that hold the eye for the clutch master was pretty grooved so I found a fab shop that built it back up for me.

Now the travel for the clutch seems about right and it feels pretty good after you pump it up once or twice but it still won't let me put the car in gear while running.. I don't really know why I have to pump it up.?? I'm not seeing leaks and the rod looks to be going straight into the master. We've been leaving the cap setting on the reservoir loosely and the diaphragm is removed so when we pump up the clutch it blows fluid up through it.  Oh, and the fluid is coming out discolored black with sediment.

My only thought now is that trying to bleed it before with the bad line on it pushed sediment into the master or the slave and is messing with the seals. Is there any other way to check to see which is the culprit? or both? other ideas?

On a side note, I am about to just go buy one of the vacuum bleeder but can't decide which one. There's a big tall one that would  do other fluid evacuation that you can add the bleeder kit to and then the smaller one that looks to be intended just for brakes and clutches. Anyone have experience with them?

Thanks for any ideas. Now off to an Epsom salts bath.. ratcheting the clutch back and forth has whipped me :-\
Laura (Shorty)
1978 AMC Concord 2DR Hatchback w/ Ralley package
1983 AMC Eagle Wagon Limited w/ 5 speed
1971 Ford F250:)

Offline carnuck

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Re: At wits end bleeding the clutch
« Reply #9 on: October 28, 2017, 08:43:43 PM »
I used a bicycle pump with an old lid and added a tire valve to pressure feed the fluid through.
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Offline trucker79005

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Re: At wits end bleeding the clutch
« Reply #10 on: October 28, 2017, 09:34:38 PM »
So did you just open the bleeder then push fluid through? Did you have any way to tell when the air was out? I don't have the stuff lying around to make one but I am trying to wrap my mind around what I'm missing.
Laura (Shorty)
1978 AMC Concord 2DR Hatchback w/ Ralley package
1983 AMC Eagle Wagon Limited w/ 5 speed
1971 Ford F250:)

Offline carnuck

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Re: At wits end bleeding the clutch
« Reply #11 on: October 28, 2017, 10:36:58 PM »
I ran the pump hose to the master then over the fender so I could hand squeeze it while opening  the bleeder with my other hand.
AMC/Jeep gauges are for amusement only. Any correlation between them and reality is purely coincidental!

 

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