AMC Eagle Den Forum
The Shop => 4X4 and Driveline => Topic started by: The Dark Side of Will on October 25, 2009, 12:14:57 PM
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I'm in Iraq right now, but I'd like to have a plan ready to build the driveline in my '85 wagon 5 speed.
I'm thinking of a 4.6 engine with GM EFI, Ford Z geared T-5 with NP-229 T-case, 3/4 or 1 ton truck front diff and yet-to-be-identified rear axle. Probably looking for 3.55ish gears at both ends.
I'd like to put the powertrain together outside the car first.
Engine:
4.0 block: What years are best? I've heard that '98+ blocks have more ribbing. What year was the roller cam introduced?
258 crankshaft: Early fully counterweighted style
Conrods: Either stock 4.0 or Eagle
Pistons: Either of the two Keith Black shelf forgings for the 4.6
Cylinder head: What years and/or casting numbers flow the best? I've heard the early 4.0 HO heads flow better than the later ones?
Intake manifold: I've heard the '98+ manifold flows best.
Headers: Is there a shelf header from any company that fits the 4.0 in an Eagle? Is there a different application that fits or is easily adapted?
Clutch:
Bellhousing: Any 258/T5 bellhousing will work, right?
Flywheel: Are there any lightweight steel flywheels available for the 258/4.0? I'd like steel or iron instead of aluminum so I can put some heat into it while offroading if necessary.
Clutch: What's a good clutch for decent torque holding (300ish ftlbs) along with off-road abusability?
Transmission:
Case: Does the AMC bellhousing take the Ford transmission case? They're both spread-bolt patterns, right?
T-case adapter: I believe I need a short T-case adapter and corresponding output shaft, right?
Transfer case:
I believe that the 229 is the one I want. My dad's done the conversion a couple of times and knows how to adapt the Eagle case half to the 229 case to put that case into an Eagle.
What combo of trans output shaft and T-case input gear will I need?
Is there a 4:1 low range gearset available for this T-case?
Driveshafts:
I don't have to change the driveshafts right away, but when I do build them, what yokes and high strength u-joints (if any) will I need?
Front Axle:
Will retaining the stock half-shafts be risky? How difficult are they to break?
I'd like to eventually swap out the front diff for something stronger than a Dana 30 How many people have done something like that?
Rear Axle:
What rear axle options are out there? I've heard that there's a year of a Chrysler axle in the Cherokee that's almost a direct swap and is a significant improvement over the Dana 35. I don't remember what type of axle it was... 8.8 or 8 1/4 or what...
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Cherokee axles work fairly easily, they used a 35 with one piece axles, d44 and Chryco 8 1/4.
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Thanks!
Which years used which axles? What were the common ratios?
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I've been finding out interesting things about T-5's. This info comes from a conversation with Paul at www.5speeds.com
Apparently, no OEM ever used a WCT5 in a 4WD application in the US.
Borg-Warner made the WCT5 in 4WD configuration using the Jeep 23 spline output shaft for some foreign markets. The car I believe was named the Panther Solo. It was also used in Jacobsen tractors.
Advance Adapters and 5Speeds got together, bought some of BW's shafts and had them reproduced in the aftermarket.
The aftermarket shafts were discontinued when the volume of orders dropped too low to make them worthwhile.
5Speeds makes a short extension housing to use the 4WD mainshafts in RWD application in Jaguars of all things. This market is still robust. Originally this combo was built as a 23 spline setup, but they have migrated it to the Ford 28 spline setup.
They have 28 spline Ford 4WD WC output shafts for $320, in current production.
The Ford Z-box used in '93 Mustang Cobras was of course a WCT5, but it's also more. It uses several upgraded parts and has a cup/cone tapered roller bearing between the input and output shafts, instead of needle bearings like the standard WCT5.
The 4WD output shafts use the standard needle bearings. In order to build a 4WD Z-box, I'd have to swap out both the input and output shafts. I'd also have to change to the shorter 4WD shift shaft.
Paul thinks that he can put a box together for me for less than it would cost me to buy the parts at retail and do it myself. Obviously this also saves me the trouble of assembling it myself and sounds like a winning deal.
The only thing he asked of me is to provide the transfer case adapter that I wanted to have on the finished product.
Which brings me to my next big question: Is the 229 the right transfer case for me to use?
The 229 has 2WH, AWH, 4WL and N (the car can be flat towed). It was used in GM's and Jeeps. In GM's it used (I think) at 32 spline input gear, in Jeeps/AMC's a 23 spline. It had 3 pinion low range planetary set standard, but 4 pinion in AMC applications and 6 pinion in Big Block Chevy applications. I'm not sure if it used varying chain widths also. I do not know if there are 4:1 low range gear sets available for it. It has fixed yoke outputs at both sides, which is nice.
Was there ever a 28 spline version of the 229 built?
Are there other T-cases that offer capabilities similar to those of a 229 with a 28 spline input?
Thanks!
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Eggcellent information.
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Back from the dead.
I'm back from the sandbox and getting ready to play.
I just bought a 3.54 front diff from an '82 4 cyl Eagle.
I have an NP-229 set aside and ready to modify.
I'm looking at rear axle options.
The Dana 35 with two piece axles has completely turned me off to any Dana 35, even with one piece axles.
In checking out www.car-parts.com , I see that the Chrysler 8 1/4 was common on '91 and newer Cherokees.
How easy is this axle to install in an Eagle? I understand that welding may be necessary.
If this isn't the easiest axle to swap into an Eagle, what is?
Thanks!
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Dana 35 and Chrysler 8.25 out of a Jeep Cherokee XJ will be the take the same amount of work since the mounting points, I believe, are identical to each other. Either would be the easiest axle to swap since they are very similar to the Eagle axle. Any other axle will require a little more fab work. I installed a 8.25 and it wasn't that bad of a job but I did have a welder,which I barely knew how to use, in my work truck and that helped out. Otherwise it's pretty straight forward.
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I assume the hub width is the same and the spring pads are the same and all I'll have to do is relocate the shock mounting brackets?
Of course I'll have to find one with disk brakes...
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Hi there. Glad to hear your state side. If you want disk brakes then you might want to look into the ford 8.8 from an Explorer. They are not too bad to swap (from what I have read) and have stock disks. They are supposed to be as strong as, if not stronger than, the Dana 44. Otherwise if the disk brakes are not too much of a concern of yours than some of the later 80's XJs had the Dana 44 that you could swap (don't remember what year exactly but Google should turn up good info). They are harder to find.
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upper 90's jeep grand cheroke's had disk brakes on their D44 rear axles but I also believe they were coil spring rears. you could just take the mounting equipment for the disk system off of the grand cherokee and put it on a regular Jeep D44 rear axle with leaf spring system... but that may also put you in a bind as I believe that the GC's useed the larger bolt pattern... am not positive though..
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I went to a local yard that had 3 Chrysler 8 1/4 axles from '95 and older Cherokees.
They also had the complete axle from a '98 GC. It looked like a D35, but the disks looked easy enough to swap. I've read elsewhere on the internet that swapped the GC disks over to an 8 1/4 is very easy and only requires slightly enlarging the center bore on the backing plates/dustshields and caliper brackets.
I've been told that the '97+ 8 1/4 axles had 29 spline shafts and are more desirable? Is this true? There's a '98 8 1/4 available for half the cost of the <'95 units, but it's a 2.5-3 hour drive. The fuel cost will make up the price difference, but are the later axles worth my trouble?
Also, what is there to know about electronic speedometers in Eagles?
Since I'll be using EFI, I need a VSS in my drivetrain. I'd like to not bother with a speedometer cable at all, and have a VSS instead of cable drive. Obviously to do that I'd need an electronic speedometer. Is there one that's easy to swap into the Eagle cluster? Is there one that's hard to swap into the Eagle cluster, but doable?
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If you are looking for a cherokee cluster and some wiring and are willing to make a drive i ahve a 95 cherokee sitting here on the property that still has all of the dash wiring and cluster that is yours for the drive to central PA
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If you are looking for a cherokee cluster and some wiring and are willing to make a drive i ahve a 95 cherokee sitting here on the property that still has all of the dash wiring and cluster that is yours for the drive to central PA
Thanks! I really appreciate the offer!
Is the Cherokee cluster a direct swap, at least mechanically? I know I'll have to run some wires... BTDT with EFI swaps in other cars. I can probably source one locally. What years "work"? Is there a thread about that already on this forum?
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i know someone on the forum has done a cherokee cluster swap into an eagle, but I can't seem to find the thread. The only thing that isn't the greatest with the cluster I have is no gauges only idiot lights. My cherokee is also a 95 so it's pre OBD2.
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This thread? http://forums.amceaglenest.com/index.php?topic=25422.0
How big is the difference in speedometer function between OBDI and OBDII?
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This thread? http://forums.amceaglesden.com/index.php?topic=25422.0
How big is the difference in speedometer function between OBDI and OBDII?
To be honest I haven't a clue, I think there is alot more wiring and another computer just for the trans. I know that my 98 bravada (OBD 2) has like 5 computers in it total and I hate it with a passion
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I've been told that the '97+ 8 1/4 axles had 29 spline shafts and are more desirable? Is this true? There's a '98 8 1/4 available for half the cost of the <'95 units, but it's a 2.5-3 hour drive. The fuel cost will make up the price difference, but are the later axles worth my trouble?
It all depends on the cost of the axles. Half the cost...are we talking $200vs$400? If so, can you travel 3hrs away and back for less than $200? I would like the increased spline count, but not for the $200 difference. IMO
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lol... Not even close... $75 +4-5 hrs drive time vs $150 +1 hr
It's not the money, it's the splines ;D
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This thread? http://forums.amceaglenest.com/index.php?topic=25422.0
How big is the difference in speedometer function between OBDI and OBDII?
To be honest I haven't a clue, I think there is alot more wiring and another computer just for the trans. I know that my 98 bravada (OBD 2) has like 5 computers in it total and I hate it with a passion
For instance, GM speedometer cables turned 1000 revolutions every mile. When GM went to gear driven VSS, the sensor turned 1000 revs/mile, but made two pulses per rev and put out 2000 pulses per mile.
For a bunch of later hardware, GM switched to a magnetic reluctor and has used counts from 14000 to 24000 pulses per mile.
I was wondering if you knew that sort of info.
Finally, on the newest ('04+) cars, the instrument panel gets all its info from the data bus and there is no direct wiring for any of the instruments.
Obviously the thread I linked is an '89 Cherokee which still used the speedometer cable.
Really, I was just curious to see if the signal info was out there. Fundamentally, it doesn't *really* matter what kind of signal the speedometer likes, as I will be able to tune the pulse count that the ECM generates to drive the speedo.
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definitly replace the rear diff. Broke 3 axles with the 360. Front axles and diff held up OK.
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I had located a 29 spline 8.25 with 3.55 gears locally for $75.
I went to get it today along with three sets of disks from Grand Cherokees. After i got the 8.25 out of the truck, I noticed an '87 Wagoneer in the crush row. I went to look at it and it had a Dana 44. Sweet! I cleaned up the tag and found it was a 3.54. For realz?! I talked to the yard manager about it. He said that because the truck was in the crush row, he'd let me have the D44 for the same price we'd agreed to for the 8.25. Awesomez!
So I snagged a 3.54 Dana 44 that will be very close to bolting in for $75 + the time it took to pull three sets of disks and two axles.
One of the GC's we were pulling disks from had a D44, but it had C-clips. The one I grabbed did not appear to have C-clips. When did they go to C-clips?
The GC D44's appeared to have very similar disks to the D35's.
What disks will I need to swap the '87 D44 I grabbed over to disks?
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I found this page about putting the newer disks on the older D44 axle:
http://www.pirate4x4.com/tech/billavista/Disc_brakes/index.html
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Sounds like a really good day at the boneyard.
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The D44 went to c clip on I believe the grand cherokee only. Kinda went along with the aluminum housing deal. Good score on the D44 though, I found one a couple weekends ago at my local u pull it ;D. It's going in my cherokee though, the eagle will eventually get the 8.25 out of it, lol.
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Heh... Yeah, I'll have an unbreakable rear axle, but a stock D30 front diff. I'll have a Dana Difference of 46% from front to rear!
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So here are some pictures:
1987 Wagoneer Dana 44 axle after removal of the drum brakes, but before cleaning
(http://will.saturnet.net/pictures/100_9204-1.JPG)
Axle after pressure washing in the quarter car wash
(http://will.saturnet.net/pictures/100_9205-1.JPG)
Original drum brakes
(http://will.saturnet.net/pictures/100_9203-1.JPG)
Dana 44 disk brake caliper brackets from late '90's Grand Cherokee
(http://will.saturnet.net/pictures/100_9202-1.JPG)
The idea is to machine the later caliper brackets to bolt onto the earlier axle housing. That may get done this week.
Most of the dirt came off with the pressure washer, however there's still some tough stuff on the axle. I will hit it with a wire brush on an angle grinder to finish mechanically cleaning it. I'll then prepare the surface for POR-15 according to the manufacturer's instructions. I'll follow that up with the same company's chassis coat black.
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I just posted a new topic elsewhere ( http://forums.amceaglesden.com/index.php?topic=33648.0 ) about finding the right brake master cylinder to use with rear disks.
Suggestions?
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What speedometer gear do the 4 cyl Eagles have? Do the 3.54 cars have the same drive gear as the 2.73 cars? Should I only have to change the driven gear?
I'm going to be driving the car with the mechanical speedometer for at least a little while before I can swap the 4.0 in and try to convert to an electronic speedometer.
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Oops... just realized I hadn't updated this thread.
Modified caliper brackets:
(http://will.saturnet.net/pictures/100_9330-1.JPG)[/quote]
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What series of U-joints to Eagles use in the driveshafts?
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What series of U-joints to Eagles use in the driveshafts?
1310
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did you ever work out what master cylinder to use? im thinking about a ford 8.8 swap down the road.
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Hadn't tackled the MC question yet.
Been busy with other things.
I *did* just notice that the shock mounts are on opposite sides between the D44 and the Eagle D35.
The left shock mount on the Eagle is in front of the axle.
I think I will cut the shock mounts off a spare Eagle axle we have and have them welded onto the D44 so that it can take dual shocks. There's room on the body for dual shocks. The only potential problem is that the exhaust will have to be re-routed on the left side.
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I have been working on this... just haven't posted it here...
So I'm going to add weld-on shock mounts to the D44:
http://www.tellico4x4.com/product_info.php/cPath/91_1790_3033/products_id/19237
I say "add" because I'm going to keep the originals also. There's real estate on the underbody for QUAD shocks. With extra shock mounts on the axle, I can install riv-nuts or nut plates in the body and actually have quad shocks... Also will have to have new tail pipe bent up to clear the new shock on the left side, but that's not such a big deal.
(http://www.tellico4x4.com/images/products/more/98201.jpg)
So I finally got around to thoroughly inspecting my target chassis...
The right side frame horn is trash... rusted away. The car is unit body. This is the structural member that goes from the engine compartment back under the passenger side floor pan.
Also, the right side rocker panel is simply *GONE*. I didn't see it earlier because there's a urethane "sheath" that covers it... similar to a side skirt, but it's so high off the ground that it really isn't a side skirt.
So I paid $500 for an Eagle stickshift swap kit...
My dad has an extra body in the back yard that he'll let me take over. It's an automatic, but I can take care of that. ;)
I snagged an extra transmission not too long after I decided I'd do this. It's another Eagle T5.
(http://will.saturnet.net/pictures/100_0725.jpg)
I pulled the T-case adapter off it and counted teeth. It has the 53/23 fifth gear pair. There is a 61/25 fifth pair that is good for a 5.8% taller fifth gear.
I originally thought that the Eagles had 0.81 fifth gears, but my dad's found references to them having 0.76 fifth gears. Swapping from the 53/23 to the 61/25 would move 5th from 0.76 to 0.72.
That's probably the widest ratio spread I can have in a T5, however, there are some info pages my dad's found that I haven't had the time to fully examine yet.
http://www.allstategear.com/T5.htm
http://www.mackstrans.com/BorgWarnerT5.html
http://cobratransmission.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=2_1813&sort=20a&page=1
Edit: Giant jumble of T5 info:
http://www.allfordmustangs.com/Detailed/349.shtml
http://www.moderndriveline.com/Technical_Bits/transmission_spec.htm
http://www.moderndriveline.com/Technical_Bits/tremec_t5.htm
http://www.drivetrain.com/parts_catalog/manual_transmission_overhaul_kits/borg_warner_t5_overhaul_kit.html
http://www.flatheadv8.org/t5-swap.htm
http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=169265
http://www.vanpeltsales.com/FH_web/t5_fivespeed.htm
http://www.ttcautomotive.com/English/products/T-5.asp
http://www.britishv8.org/Articles/Borg-Warner-T5-ID-Tags.htm
http://www.adchevy.com/techtips/t5list/
http://www.inliners.org/Jack/t5_page.html[/quote]
I want the 4.03 first and 0.72 fifth... that's the widest ratio spread I can get and will give me a 37:1 crawl ratio.
It won't be so sporting on pavement, but it's an Eagle. The most powerful engine it's ever going to get is a stock 4.0 HO at 190/220ish.
Regular Jeep transmissions use:
Input: 21:37
1st: 14:32
2nd: 23:31
3rd: 32:27
5th: 53:23
My extra transmission has:
Input: 21:37
1st: 14:32
2nd: 23:31
3rd: 34:29
5th: 53:23
It has the 4.03 First and 0.76 fifth (53:23). That means I can swap in the 61/25 fifth pair and have 0.72. Sweeeet.
So it has a *slightly* shorter 3rd than the Jeep units. The countershaft with 37/34/23/X/14 doesn't show up on my parts lists, however.
I'm @$$uming it has the 9.312 input shaft since it's an AMC/Jeep, but that's pretty difficult to tell from the 9.250 input shaft with the trans assembled. Is there an external feature I can measure to definitively tell me which one I have?
Got the transfer case parts put together over the weekend. I haven't done the final assembly, but I have all the parts for the 2 speed case on the bench.
The Eagles were built with NP 119 T-cases. These are single speed units that are selectable for 2WD or AWD.
The Wagoneers were built with NP 229 T-cases. These are two speed units that are selectable for 2WH, AWH, N or 4WL. In low range the center diff is locked and the VC is out of the picture.
The 119 and 229 share the same castings for the external case. The volume occupied by the low range gearset in the 229 is simply empty in the 119. The 119 cases were *typically* not machined with the receiver holes for the low range shift rail, although the boss for that receiver was still in the casting. All rear cases have the bosses cast in and cored for two different clockings of the extension housing (where the speedometer cable gear drive lives). One set of holes is drilled in the 119 and the other set in the 229. The 229 drilling places the extension housing at an angle such that the speedometer cable hits the floorpan of the Eagle body. Thus the 229 is not a direct swap into an Eagle.
There are two options to swap a 229 into an Eagle:
1) Bore the receiver hole for the low range shift rail in the 119 rear case half and put it together with the 229 front case half.
2) Drill and tap the extra bolt pattern for the extension housing in the back of the 229 case half so that the extension housing can be clocked correctly for the Eagle body.
Since 1 involves indicating and boring one hole while 2 involves indicating and boring six holes, 1 is the typical option. My dad had converted two Eagles previously to 229 T-cases and has bored the receiver hole in both setups. Once you know the location to bore, it's fairly easy... indicate in on the dowel pin locations, then go to the hole coordinates and cut metal.
There is the theoretical alternative of simply drilling and tapping the cored locations for the extension housing bolt pattern using a drill press--essentially relying on the core hole to be a pilot hole. We're not sure the core holes are located accurately enough to do that. The extension housing is located by a shoulder and doesn't depend on these holes to locate it, but you still have to be able to install the bolts.
So anyway, I took a 119 and a 229 apart over the weekend, expecting that the receiver hole could be bored this coming week and I could do final assembly next weekend. I was pleasantly surprised to find that the 119 I took apart *already* had the receiver hole bored. Score! I swapped the 119 rear case onto the 229 (and vice versa) and will clean + final assemble next weekend.
There's an external bracket that has to be modified to work in the Eagle body, and my dad's taking care of that with the welder this week.
I ordered the 61 tooth gear for the T5 (already had the 25T) so I can swap that over next weekend. Then with just a clean-up I'll be able to put the trans and T-case together. I can probably make time to sand blast and paint the front diff next weekend also... We'll see.
Going from 0.76 with 2.73 to 0.72 with 3.54 will unfortunately result in a 23% increase in cruising RPM, but that's better than the 30% it would have been with just the 2.73 to 3.54 swap.
2.07 = 0.76 * 2.73
2.55 = 0.72 * 3.54
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Nice work, eggcelent info. You have all the luck - first the XJ D44, then the 119 case with the shift rail hole already bored. Makes you almost forget about the rust issues.
I've dealt with All State Gear - they really know their stuff. My AX-15 in my Eagle is from them. Good gearheads.
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I order from Cobra ( http://cobratransmission.com/ )
They had the 61 for ~$90, while I saw $115 and $135 elsewhere. I don't remember looking at All State.
I don't know if I'd call it luck... I'm *still* building the car :P
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What speedometer gear do the 4 cyl Eagles have? Do the 3.54 cars have the same drive gear as the 2.73 cars? Should I only have to change the driven gear?
My 3.54 Cherokee and my 3.54 Eagle had the exact same red speedo gear. To be specific the top of the gear and the clocking is the same but the bottom clips into the electric part differently. Both red gears, Eagle and XJ, had the same identification number on it. I used a red 3.54 drive gear with a transfer case from a 2.35 car and it worked fine, so it confirms that they have the same gear inside the transfer case. The transfer case adaptor clocks into four different spots to account for the difference in diameter from 2.35 to 3.54 speedo gears.
Early YJ's had a mechanical speedometer with a 4.0 electric plug built right into the transfer case adaptor. Dodge trucks also had a similar adaptor, except that those are in two pieces. My 1992 Cherokee has the exact same adaptor except that the hole for the mechanical speedometer cable is covered by a flap of plastic because the Cherokee uses the wires only. You can purchase the adaptor off the shelf at a parts store. If you convert it now you can order one speedo gear for a YJ instead of ordering one now and another later.
Great thread! This is exactly what I'm planning to do with my two Cherokee Dana44s. The rear disc brakes are the biggest performance difference between a car made in the '80's and one made today.
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Thanks!
Is there an electronic speedometer that's an easy swap?
I'll be converting to GM EFI (using a modified distributor) eventually, and it would be handy to not have to mess with a speedometer cable.
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I am personally using a speedo and tachometer from a 1992 XJ. It takes some work to fit into the dash, but I think the end product will look totally stock. I included a picture of my work so far as well as a picture of the red 3.54 gear next to the white 2.35 gear.
You can walk into a parts store and walk out with the adaptor. A friend of mine just did that for his International Scout, and I think he spent 30 dollars for a 1989 YJ adaptor. That piece goes into the transfer case and has a mechanical cable in the center and the plug for the wire off to the side. I'm hoping to take a common 1992 XJ adaptor and cut out the plastic to expose the mechanical part since its the same shape. Newer XJ's have an all electronic piece that still uses the same plug in gears. The dodge version is a plug in piece that bridges a CJ adaptor at the transfer case and the speedo cable. All the Jeeps use a speedometer cable with threads at both ends, which I love. I hate having to dump the fluid everytime I want to pull the transfer case just because the speedo cable is one piece. Hesco sells that Dodge version for 122 dollars but its available for much less elsewhere.
(http://i1181.photobucket.com/albums/x427/captspillane/Eagleweb%20Postings/DSCF0759.jpg)
(http://i1181.photobucket.com/albums/x427/captspillane/Eagleweb%20Postings/DSCF0851.jpg)
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There's an external bracket that has to be modified to work in the Eagle body, and my dad's taking care of that with the welder this week.
I was reminded upon reading this thread: http://forums.amceaglesden.com/index.php?topic=35761.0
that the Wagoneer linkage bracket needs to be modified only to clear the 998/999 shift arm. Since I have a T5, I don't need to do that.
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I went to Autozone yesterday. The speed sensor is available new there for 70 dollars. Hesco wants 122. I just found it on the evil bay for 28.03 (buy it now, free shipping). Helpful search terms to find what you want include the words "new" "speed" "sensor" "transmission" "vehicle" "Dodge" and "Dakota".
The same one was used on 88-93 Dodge Dakotas as well as 91 to 93 YJ's. The Speed Sensor has an input and an output. It screws into the CJ style transfer case adaptor that is also used in a 1992 XJ. The XJ speed sensor is nearly identical except that it doesn't have the threads and hole for the mechanical speedometer.
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Here's some more information I just wrote about the 28 dollar speed sensor I just found.
The same one was used on 88-93 Dodge Dakotas as well as 91 to 93 YJ's. The Speed Sensor has an input and an output. It screws into the CJ style transfer case adaptor that is also used in a 1992 XJ. The XJ speed sensor is nearly identical except that it doesn't have the threads and hole for the mechanical speedometer.
The first picture shows the YJ speed sensor I'm talking about. The second pic, in the middle, shows the 92 XJ version that does not have the hole or threads in the center (to be honest it shows a Dodge speed sensor that’s nearly identical). Later XJ’s replaced this two piece design with a one piece electronic only design. The last picture shows the entire two piece design that gets installed into your transfer case.
Option 1: Mount it directly on the back of your Speedo using a brass adaptor to go from tiny threads to big threads. It’s tight but this keeps everything else stock. “Tougeagle” used this method in his popular write-up.
Option 2: Mount it on the firewall, have original speedo cable go to it, then an International Scout upper speedometer cable which is only about 2 feet long go from that to your speedo cluster. Scouts had some doohicky on the firewall that interrupted the speedo cable just like this does.
Option 3: Get a common 92 XJ adaptor that plugs into the side of the transfer case. You'll need that piece from a junkyard. Thread this 91 YJ speed sensor into it. Get a 91 YJ mechanical speedo cable (threaded at both ends) to go from your dash to the speed sensor on your transfer case.
Option 4: Combine option 2 and 3. This is my choice and my recommendation. You use a YJ mechanical speedometer cable instead of the original Eagle Speedometer cable. Screw one end of the speedo cable directly into the XJ transfer case adaptor and the other end into the speed sensor mounted in a convenient spot under the hood. I’ll have the short Scout cable to go from the speed sensor to my dash. This keeps all electronic junk organized inside the hood.
Option 5: Eliminate the mechanical speedometer totally by modifying an XJ speedo to fit into the Eagle dash. I included a picture of the dash I’m making for my main car with an XJ tachometer and Speedo.
The last three options are the best in my opinion because you can just unscrew the speedo cable and leave the transfer case fluid alone if you’re just removing the transmission to work on something else. It’s a mess to deal with popping that stupid integrated speedo cable out of the transfer case all the time. All Jeep transfer cases are interchangeable if you upgrade later, so you’ll only have to buy these parts once.
(http://i1181.photobucket.com/albums/x427/captspillane/Eagleweb%20Postings/SpeedSensor.jpg)
(http://i1181.photobucket.com/albums/x427/captspillane/Eagleweb%20Postings/VSSRight.jpg)
(http://i1181.photobucket.com/albums/x427/captspillane/Eagleweb%20Postings/DSCF0759.jpg)
(http://i1181.photobucket.com/albums/x427/captspillane/Eagleweb%20Postings/SpeedSensorwhole.jpg)
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I was reading somewhere about a speedo/odo that is GPS controlled. Can't recall where now (sinus headache today)
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Speed Hut (and maybe others) offer GPS speedometers.
Thanks for the info on the speed sensors and speedo cables. When I do convert to EFI, I'll go all the way to an electronic speedometer and ditch the cable entirely.
61T 5th counter gear just shipped today, so I won't get to play with it this weekend unless USPS pulls out a miracle. It's travelling from Miami to mid-western VA.
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If it's coming USPS vs UPS they should still deliver Sat shouldn't they?
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only on special extra paid orders
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Wow, must be the difference in local post offices, but around here US Postal Service still does Sat. standard mail delivery, and if that includes a package I get the package with my normal mail, they don't pull back packages for later delivery, it just gets thrown in with all the Junk mail & coupon mailers...
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http://usgovinfo.about.com/od/consumerawareness/a/No-Saturday-Mail-Snubs-Rural-America.htm
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I see, so do I assume that they got the OK to end Sat delivery then? I'd make the further assumption that you are in a "rural" area. Sadly I'm not, I'd trade the Sat delivery for a little less SUB-urbaness in a second, though luckily my neighbors aren't too bad with all my "stuff" around here...
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Actually, everyone will be losing saturday delivery. UPS and Fedex will be the saturday guys so deliveries in town won't stop, but they don't do saturday rural delivery. I used to do those years ago and lost that job when they did the cutback due to costs of delivering to "the hinterlands"
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Now that you mention it I vaguely remember hearing something about the USPS asking to stop sat service altogether, but really didn't pay too much attention to it. So they got (was it Congress I heard that was the decision maker?) to agree to let them do it? I thought that I heard they weren't inclined to allow it?
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As of right now the Postmaster General is still trying to get Congress to authorize 5 day delivery. So far Congress is sticking with the 6 day delivery. Thank god for that as I am a Rural Carrier Associate and only work on Saturdays. LOL .. if they change I might be out of a job.
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The gear did arrive today. I was more convinced that the USPS wouldn't be able to get it from a Thursdat shipment in Miami to Saturday delivery in VA.
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Of course it doesn't mesh with the 25 tooth gear I already had...
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<SIGH>... of course the 25T gear I already had doesn't mesh with the 61T gear I received... The parts listings I've seen don't show which gears are paired with which. This means that there could easily be a pairing of 25 teeth with something else for a Jeep application and I have that 25T gear.
I guess the way to find out is to order the 25T Camaro V8 5th gear output, make sure it meshes with this 61T gear and compare it to the 25T gear I have.
I can't use the Camaro gear because the Jeep transmissions have 23 spline outputs and the Camaros have something else (28?) and the 5th output gear shares the transmission's output splines.
Pics of T-case mix/match:
Insides of 119 T-case. Note the single shift rail for changing between 2WD and AWD. The aluminum cylinder on the top of the stack is the VC housing.
(http://will.saturnet.net/pictures/100_0787.JPG)
Empty volume in 119 where low range gear set isn't
(http://will.saturnet.net/pictures/100_0788.JPG)
On the left, the 12 internal bosses for the 12 extension housing bolt locations. In the center, the TWO bores for the low range and 2/AWD shift rails. This is my factory-low-range 119 rear case half, but from this view, the two should look the same.
(http://will.saturnet.net/pictures/100_0789.JPG)
Low range gear set in 229 T-case
(http://will.saturnet.net/pictures/100_0793.JPG)
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Bump.
I obtained the Camaro 25T gear and now can't find the 61T gear or the other 25T gear. My thought was to turn the teeth off the 23 spline gear and bore the splines out of the 28 spline gear, then press the two components together to make a narrow pitch 25T gear with 23 splines... something that the OEM never made. That would let me run the 4.03 first with 0.72 fifth
However,
I'll be measuring up an NV3550 over the weekend.
I've come to the conclusion that's a much better choice than the T5. The NV3550 has a 300 ftlbs torque rating while the T5 is rated for 240 ftlbs.
According to Novak, the length of the 3550 is ~1.5" longer than the T5 without its bellhousing. I'll have to measure up the T5 parts to see how the lengths compare with the bellhousing.
http://www.novak-adapt.com/knowledge/t4_t5.htm
http://www.novak-adapt.com/knowledge/nv3550.htm
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I was pleasantly surprised to find that the 119 I took apart *already* had the receiver hole bored. Score! I swapped the 119 rear case onto the 229 (and vice versa) and will clean + final assemble next weekend.
I was incorrect about this. The holes I thought was bored was just cored very close to final size... Was obvious when I put a flashlight up to it (and the shift rail didn't go in).
My dad still had the fixture for boring the hole, though, so boring it was easy and quick.
I've also been cleaning up the T-case housing and transmission case, as they are/were filthy.
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I'll be measuring up an NV3550 over the weekend.
I've come to the conclusion that's a much better choice than the T5. The NV3550 has a 300 ftlbs torque rating while the T5 is rated for 240 ftlbs.
According to Novak, the length of the 3550 is ~1.5" longer than the T5 without its bellhousing. I'll have to measure up the T5 parts to see how the lengths compare with the bellhousing.
The Novak website is extremely biased toward the products they sell. It's also very incomplete. Do not trust it fully.
Overall length, front of the bellhousing to the transfer case face:
NV3550 (also AX15 and NSG370)= 24"
T5= 21' 3/4"
TF998= 22-3/8" (Automatic Eagles)
You'll be amazed at the difference in weight and girth between an NV3550 and a T5. The T5 is a car transmission. The NV3550 is a truck transmission. Unfortunately this translates to a very clunky, stiff shifting experience. The gears are considerably heavier and stronger in the NV3550 and you can tell. The T5 is very smooth and fast. Also beware of the fluid issues with NV3550s. They need special fluid or their synchros degrade and it will shift terribly.
I suggest the AX15. It is just as large as the NV3550 and very close in strength. It is a considerable upgrade over the T5, however it shifts just as smooth and as quickly as the T5.
Both an AX15 and the NV3550 can be mounted behind a T5 bellhousing utilizing 258 shift hardware and the thicker 258 flywheel. To do this you need the Advanced Adaptors kit. It's listed for the NV3550 but it actually works for the AX15 with a very minor modification.
If you want to use the thinner 4.0 flywheel and bellhousing, which is a great idea if you want to fuel inject, then you'll need an advanced adaptors kit to convert your NV3550 slave to metal flare line. Alternatively an early AX15 has in internal slave that is already 3/16" flare line compatible with your Eagle clutch master cylinder.
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I essentially replicated those measurements.
NV3550: 23+7/8
T5: 21+3/4
Basically, what I want to know is "Does it fit?". Have you completed the car in your sig with the 401+3550? Has anyone else completed a 3550 or AX15 swap?
If you want to use the thinner 4.0 flywheel and bellhousing, which is a great idea if you want to fuel inject, then you'll need an advanced adaptors kit to convert your NV3550 slave to metal flare line. Alternatively an early AX15 has in internal slave that is already 3/16" flare line compatible with your Eagle clutch master cylinder.
Yes, I definitely will end up with an EFI'd 4.0 (maybe even a 4.6 if I can install a stronger transmission than a T5). If all that's necessary to use the 3550 is the clutch line adapter, that doesn't sound bad.
Does it bolt to the same transmission crossmember?
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Too far away, but I have an AX-15 and NP231 for sale ($500 the pair) It's external slave style.
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The NV3550 transmission does fit. I just bumped Tougeagles old project thread "1300 dollar fixer upper" again with pictures of an AX15 installed into an Eagle station wagon as well as pictures of the mounts he made. The NV3550 is directly interchangeable with an AX15. The clutch slave cylinder arrangement is slightly different depending on the year but that difference is minor. It has a very similar or identical transmission mount as a T5 or SR4 but it sits further back along the transmission. You will need to build an extension to the crossmember about three inches long to support the rearmost mount bolts.
My CJ8 Scrambler has an NV3550 behind a 258 with the original factory mechanical clutch and T5 bellhousing. It has an extension plate added with a plate of metal to cover the area below the mount bolts for a regular transmission mount. If you read all of Tougeagle's thread he actually had severe vibrations with his mount bolts until he made a change and eliminated metal to metal contact. I won't make custom mounts out of poly bushings like he did because a transmission mount is much better than those and just as easy to adapt.
In my 401 SX4 the NV3550 will be bolted to the Eagle crossmember and then the whole crossmember will be moved three to four inches back then bolted to the subframe with through bolts below the rug. The old crossmember bolts are toast on that car so I'll put the new ones where I want them to stay. I will line up the V8 mounts using the SR4 in factory position then line up the NV3550 off the position of the V8.
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The first link is the slave cylinder adaptor kit I purchased. It comes with a brand new slave and stainless steel flex line that is compatible with your Eagle Master cylinder. The same slave cylinder can be used with the NSG370 6 Speed but a plastic spacer at the bottom is different.
The second link is the kit I'm using for my V8 engines and my CJ8 mechanical clutch. It retains the thicker old style of flywheel and the T5 bellhousing. It's more of a big deal for V8s because of the external balancing. In your case you are better off keeping the NV3550 bellhousing and using a 4.0 flywheel for your future fuel injection plans.
The third link is the bracket I'm using for my NV3550 Eagle. It's meant to put the transfer case shifter in the exact spot it would be located in a stock Jeep YJ. I think it will bring the low range lever right up about four inches to the left of the transmission shift lever, which will work nicely. I haven't installed it yet to confirm. I like the idea of having a shifter with direct linkage instead of cable linkage, but realistically cable linkage is easier to adjust it's location and it wouldn't vibrate or need as much of a boot. I plan on trying the Novak cable linkage in a different Eagle.
http://www.advanceadapters.com/products/jeep-slave-cylinder-kit-for-nv3550/
http://www.advanceadapters.com/products/jeep-wrangler-nv3550-5-speed-transmission-to-jeep-258--v8-adapter-plate-kit/
http://www.advanceadapters.com/products/nv3550-shifter-bracket-for-jeep-np231-transfer-cases/
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Interesting... Thanks for the info!
I'll have to read up on it later, though.
$1300 fixer-upper for reference: http://forums.amceaglenest.com/index.php?topic=21335.0
Trans mount crossmember & 4.0 header exhaust: http://forums.amceaglenest.com/index.php?topic=21335.msg216720#msg216720
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I have a NV3550. I've been busy with another project and haven't been putting much time into the Eagle.
Next big step is to weld the Eagle shock brackets to the Dana 44 axle... However, my dad's truck is currently being painted, so it will be a few weeks until it's available to carry the axle up to the shop.
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Avoid the thought process of dual shocks. There is zero benefit to it in an Eagle. All it would do is make for a very stiff ride in the rear...
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There are air bag shocks available for Eagles. Because of the small diameter, they don't provide much extra support, but 4 of them would obviously provide twice as much. The addition of air bags could allow an Eagle to run soft springs and low ride height on the road, then pump up to increase the ride height off road.
Not that I'm going to do that... it's just a potential benefit of quad shocks.
The target body actually just received new aftermarket rear springs that make it ride like a truck anyway.
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I have the factory air ride in the back of mine. I have to fill them to match my front springs I put in. I'll be glad when I can swap the rear axle and add my add a leaves from another pack.
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I'm an engine, flywheel and clutch away from being able to bolt the drivetrain together.
Are there any dimensional differences between the 4.2 and 4.0 flywheels? Is the only difference the crank trigger wheel on the 4.0 flywheel?
IE, these two products:
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/zzz-50-1002/overview/make/jeep
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/zzz-50-1001/overview/make/jeep
What I intend to do is run the 4.0 with a carb (*NOT* the factory 258 carb) initially, then later convert to GM fuel injection using a hybrid/frankenstein distributor for pickup coil/triggering. This means that I *shouldn't* need the trigger wheel on the flywheel.
However, having the trigger wheel gives me flexibility for changing plans.
Any recommendations for a particular clutch? If not, I'm just going to see what CarQuest has.
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Both an AX15 and the NV3550 can be mounted behind a T5 bellhousing utilizing 258 shift hardware and the thicker 258 flywheel. To do this you need the Advanced Adaptors kit. It's listed for the NV3550 but it actually works for the AX15 with a very minor modification.
If you want to use the thinner 4.0 flywheel and bellhousing, which is a great idea if you want to fuel inject, then you'll need an advanced adaptors kit to convert your NV3550 slave to metal flare line. Alternatively an early AX15 has in internal slave that is already 3/16" flare line compatible with your Eagle clutch master cylinder.
I just went back and reviewed the thread. Thanks for the info... Just verifying that I must use the 4.0 flywheel with the NV 3550. What are the thicknesses of the two flywheels?
What years AX-15 have the slave with the flare fitting?
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The starter is the biggest difference between the 4.2L and 4.0L flywheels. The tooth offset is different so they don't interchange. I would shoot for an external slave bell AX-15 myself.
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I have the NV3550, so that's the direction I'm going. I just wanted to understand the flywheel and clutch slave situation.
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Ah! I thought you were using the AX15 bell
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I have the NV3550 from bellhousing to T-case adapter.
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So here's what I need to do:
Replace input and output shaft seals in NP229
Reassemble NP229
Assemble NP229 and NV3550
Obtain 4.0, flywheel and clutch
Install flywheel and clutch
Assemble 4.0 to NV3550+NP229
Blast/paint 3.54 front diff.
Clean/paint extra front diff mount brackets
Assemble front diff to remainder of powertrain
Modify 4.0 exhaust manifold or build downpipe to clear Eagle front diff
Install new shock brackets to 3.54 D44
Blast/Paint D44
Assemble disk brakes to D44
I helped my dad pull the engine from an Eagle recently. Based on how difficult it was to pull *just* the engine, I'm @$$uming the most straightforward way is to R&R the Eagle powertrain is to disassemble the front suspension + steering linkage, then drop the entire powertrain with the transmission and front suspension crossmembers out the bottom of the car.
Has anyone tried this before?
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The 4.0 flywheel is a quarter inch thinner than the 258 flywheel.
The early AX15 didn't actually have a slave cylinder, technically it had a hydraulic throwout bearing that acted like a slave cylinder. It forms a donut around the input shaft and has 3/16" flare lines going to a flare union outside of the bellhousing. Around 1994 they switched to an external slave cylinder visually identical to the NV3550 version. The entire setup is different and not compatible, mostly because the NV3550 has a thicker bearing retainer and stronger input shaft than the AX15 so that the hydraulic slave won't fit on the NV3550.
Advanced Adaptors has the kit you need. It is a new NV3550 slave cylinder with flare fittings already added and a very nice stainless steel flex hose included. You still must use the original AMC Eagle Clutch Master Cylinder. Make sure you make your own remote resevoir if your car originally had the white tube style resevoir. Those crack and leave your car stranded unable to shift if you keep them.
Yes, it has been done. I just pulled the crossmember with the engine and trans as one unit a month ago with my newest SX4. It's only worthwhile if you plan on replacing all your front steering components at the same time. It adds a great deal of time to the drivetrain swap if you decide to pull the crossmember. I never pull the engine by itself, I always pop the transmission off the back first and then pull it out.
(http://i1181.photobucket.com/albums/x427/captspillane/2012%20Eagle%20Web/IMG_1840.jpg)
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My dad dropped the trans + T-case from a car, then pulled the engine leaving the front diff in the car... That looked like a ridiculously frustrating way to go about mechanical disassembly.
I was thinking that if I remove the suspension and steering, then dropping the crossmember wouldn't be so hard.
So it would look like
A. Remove Suspension
1. Remove front brakes and hang calipers via mechanic's wire
2. Unbolt innver CV joints from front diff output flanges (I'll have steel disks made to ziptie to the open ends of the joints so they don't spill their guts everywhere)
3. Unbolt steering arms from knuckles (or break loose outer tie rod ends from steering arms)
4. Unbolt tension/compression strut bracket from body
5. Break loose upper ball joint (or unbolt upper control arm from body)
6. Unbolt lower control arm from crossmember
7. Remove each side of the front suspension as an assembly
B. Remove steering
1. Unbolt steering gear from steering shaft
2. Unbolt pump from engine
3. Unbolt steering gear and idler arm from body
4. Remove entire steering system as an assembly
C. Everything else
1. Disconnect fuel plumbing
2. Disconnect engine wiring
3. Unbolt A/C compressor
4. Drain coolant & disconnect coolant plumbing, including heater hoses (remove radiator?)
5. Disconnect and remove exhaust
6. Disconnect throttle and cruise cables
7. Unbolt rear driveshaft
8. Disconnect speedometer cable & shifter mechanism
9. Unbolt trans crossmember (and T-case skidplate) and support
10. Unbolt engine/suspension crossmember and lower powertrain via overhead hoist and powertrain levelling attachment.
That sound reasonable?
Edit: Could possibly skip unbolting the CV joints and the lower control arms and lower the front suspension out with the crossmember... Would still have to remove the steering separately, of course.
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Also, how thick are the two flywheels?
Can a 258 flywheel be machined down to 4.0 thickness?
Anyone used the "smaller flywheels" from the 192's and 232's on a 4.0?
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You can use either flywheel on either motor,haha. seriously though just match starter to the wheel.
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I understand that they'll bolt up to the engine and work with the correct starter.
Because they are different thicknesses, the choice of flywheel affects the cltuch stack height.
Since the transmission I'll be using is designed for the thinner of the two stacks...
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The list of steps you listed was exactly what I just did last month. It works just fine, just expect to be putting it together thinking "I should replace that while I'm here." Then when you're done you'll have new everything and need a wheel alignment. In the end you'll have 700 or 800 dollars sunk into your Eagle and the job will have taken twice as long. I was already planning on that work so it made sense for that car. If you got the time and money to throw around, then go for it.
Getting the flywheel "thinned" would be a waste of money. Flywheels are pretty cheap. If you used the thicker flywheel you "might" be okay with your clutch pedal mechanism. If you're not okay then Novak makes an adjustable throwout bearing that will compensate the quarter inch directly. That is really intended for someone using a 4.0 flywheel with a 258 transmission. It's not intended to be used with the NV3550 because it doesn't make sense to use a 258 flywheel with that transmission.
If your heart is set on using a 258 flywheel with your NV3550, then you need an Advanced Adaptors kit to provide a spacer to mount your AX15 or NV3500 to the back of a T5 bellhousing. That is the best way to mount one of those transmissions to an AMC V8 because all the clutch mechanism stays stock T5 hardware (You cannot use a 4.0 flywheel with an AMC V8).
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The list of steps you listed was exactly what I just did last month. It works just fine, just expect to be putting it together thinking "I should replace that while I'm here." Then when you're done you'll have new everything and need a wheel alignment. In the end you'll have 700 or 800 dollars sunk into your Eagle and the job will have taken twice as long. I was already planning on that work so it made sense for that car. If you got the time and money to throw around, then go for it.
Thanks for the info!
Did you unbolt the axles and remove the lower control arms from the crossmember or did you leave the suspension attached?
Did you remove the radiator?
I'll be bench-assembling the powertrain which will go into the car... and I don't mind renewing parts on a 25+ year old car anyway.
Getting the flywheel "thinned" would be a waste of money. Flywheels are pretty cheap.
I know flywheels are cheap... I can order a new stock replacement from Summit for $80.
I'm curious about it for the possibility of saving weight, not money. I know a heavier flywheel is recommended for off road use, but I just hate driving heavy flywheels on-road, and that is where this car will spend most of its time.
My dad works at a machine shop, so I can have it done essentially free.
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You have the strongest transmission available, the NV3550, from bellhousing back. If that's the case you need to use the thinner 4.0 flywheel with it. It's already thin, why would you want to thin a 258 flywheel? The only difference I see is that you would be able to use the original starter. The 4.0 starter is a much more reliable and longer lasting unit so that wouldn't make sense either.
I am having the front axle rebuilt so everything got removed including the axle. You absolutely must take your CV shafts off to get your wheel bearings and spindles off, so you're only saving five bolts that hold the axle on. I left the lower control arms on but I did grind off the rivets holding the ball joints while it was still in the car. You could leave the coil springs on, but realize that it's impossible to get your CV shafts off unless you push up against the coil spring with a jack. I held the entire car up by an engine hoist attached to a strap around the front bumper. I picked up the body off the engine as the drivetrain sat on rollers. You could feasibly leave the radiator but I removed it because it was being replaced and its in the way of removing the power steering pump conveniantly. I left the power steering pump tied to the fender wall and the steering box still inside the car. The pitman arm was popped off the power steering box. You must remove the power steering pump because the engine won't fit past the steering box on the way out the bottom of the car.
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You have the strongest transmission available, the NV3550, from bellhousing back. If that's the case you need to use the thinner 4.0 flywheel with it. It's already thin, why would you want to thin a 258 flywheel? The only difference I see is that you would be able to use the original starter. The 4.0 starter is a much more reliable and longer lasting unit so that wouldn't make sense either.
My understanding of the flywheels was that there was a year in which the 258 thicker flywheel used the 4.0 starter gear location.
Is that correct?
I'm putting info together from different sources to come to that conclusion, so I could be wrong.
My @$$umption was that by taking the thicker 258 flywheel with the later starter gear mounting and machining it down, I'd have a lighter 4.0 flywheel. The two units are listed on Summit's website as starting at the same weight.
Did the starter ring gear change really happen at the same time as the change from 258 to 4.0?
I am having the front axle rebuilt so everything got removed including the axle. You absolutely must take your CV shafts off to get your wheel bearings and spindles off, so you're only saving five bolts that hold the axle on. I left the lower control arms on but I did grind off the rivets holding the ball joints while it was still in the car. You could leave the coil springs on, but realize that it's impossible to get your CV shafts off unless you push up against the coil spring with a jack. I held the entire car up by an engine hoist attached to a strap around the front bumper. I picked up the body off the engine as the drivetrain sat on rollers. You could feasibly leave the radiator but I removed it because it was being replaced and its in the way of removing the power steering pump conveniantly. I left the power steering pump tied to the fender wall and the steering box still inside the car. The pitman arm was popped off the power steering box. You must remove the power steering pump because the engine won't fit past the steering box on the way out the bottom of the car.
My intent is to get the powertrain out quickly.
I'm thinking that any bolts, such as the axle bolts, that can be left in place to remove the powertrain will be easier to access with powertrain out of the car and on the shop floor (or up on a sturdy work table).
Interesting that you popped the pitman arm off. I was thinking that I'd end up unbolting the gear and idler arm mount from the body. Having the gear off would be an interesting opportunity to reinforce the body.
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The starter change and ring gear offset happened at the same time in '87. In the Grand Wagoneers, even the 360 V8s got the samr starter as 4.0L
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Obviously.
I was under the impression that the change in ring gear location occurred on the 258, and later the 4.0 was produced. After reading a little more, I think that the starter/ring gear change happened at the same time as the change to 4.0. Is this correct?
So there is no "intermediate" 258 flywheel like I thought there might be.
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The Summit website lists two different Zoom stock replacement 4.0 flywheels:
One for '87-'90: http://www.summitracing.com/parts/zzz-50-1004/applications/make/jeep?prefilter=1
And one for '91 to '03: http://www.summitracing.com/parts/zzz-50-1002/applications/make/jeep?prefilter=1
I assume the '87-'90 unit is for the Renix systems and the '91+ for Chrysler fuel injection.
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I assume the '87-'90 unit is for the Renix systems and the '91+ for Chrysler fuel injection.
Yes, the notches for the CPS are different.
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Flywheel and clutch ordered from RockAuto for about $190 including shipping
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Had the flywheel/clutch for a couple of weeks.
A friend rebuilt the 4.0 in his '91 Cherokee a few months ago.
Unfortunately for him, he rolled it this week.
He's ok, only bruised pride.
But I can snag the engine for $500 from the yard that has the truck now.
It will need the 258 oil pan and pickup tube, which I have. Once I get flywheel, pressure plate, bellhousing & trans-to-T-case bolts, I'll be ready to bolt the powertrain together.
I *should* even be able to run it with the stock Jeep EFI while I put together the GM system I'd actually *like* to run.
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Bad for your friend, but a good opportunity for you. I skimmed over the whole thread and didn't see why you want to go with a GM EFI system vs the Jeep. Is it because it is supported by the aftermarket and easy to tune? I know another member used the GM stuff on his stroker a few years ago. His username is amcman76. I have everything to install EFI via Megasquirt but just haven't had the guts to do it yet.
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Yeah, the GM controls would be tunable.
I'd need a $300 EPROM emulator, but that's about it... The software's not very expensive.
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I blasted and painted an Eagle oil pan Friday night... it needs another coat, though.
I picked up the 4.0 yesterday, but haven't snapped any pics. It's in the trailer under a tarp right now... Should be able to get it into the garage next weekend.
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Are there any reinforcements for the 4.0 oil pan side rails available?
GM made them for later small block Chevies... I figured that if there's any other engine on the planet that would have such a thing available, it would be the 4.0.
Edit: Like these:
(http://i.ebayimg.com/t/93-97-LT1-Camaro-Firebird-Oil-Pan-Reinforcement-Bars-/03/!BwRoczwEWk~$(KGrHqYOKjoEwPujilnYBMIOLhS2Gg~~_12.JPG)
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Reinformcement rails? Why would you need them?
Felpro makes a $40 oil pan gasket that has metal reinforcement inside of rubber. It's called "Permadry." It is a one piece design, so both sides and the connecting pieces across the front timing cover are all intergrated into one reusable, amazing gasket. I love them. I only use RTV on one side to seal them to the oil pan, then a dab of RTV at each corner. They work for a long time and never need to be replaced if you take the pan off.
They also make a Permadry timing cover gasket that works better than anything else out there. The metal reinforcement keeps the bolts from squeezing out the rubber, keeping a more even tightness across the whole gasket surface. Unfortunately you need a late '87 to '90 258 head or a 4.0 head to have the right bolt pattern to use the Permadry valve cover gasket.
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The flange on the pan I have is a little bit bent... I can straighten the flange, but wanted some assurance I wouldn't end up chasing my tail in the form of an oil pan leak.
I initially bought the 4 piece cork gasket, but I've read that one doesn't work worth a :censored:. I've read about the '95+ Cherokee gasket. Is that the same as the Permadry?
I have a 4.0, so it sounds like I can use the Permadry timing cover gasket as well. The engine might already have one as it was recently rebuilt.
2nd coat of paint on the pan came out great. I'll be moving the 4.0 around to the garage as well as blasting and painting the 3.54 front diff next weekend.
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Rockauto lists it under 82 AMC Eagle as part #OS34308R for $16. The Permadry plus valve cover gasket is also listed for a '92 XJ as part # VS50522T for $30. That's cheaper than when I last bought a set. Most places sell them for $40. Of course with Rockauto you pay for shipping too. If you get your old pan straight enough to look good against a ruler or straight edge, I would trust this gasket to hold up. The cork four piece ones are about $6 and they're junk in comparison.
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So I just called a ChryCo stealership and was quoted the following:
Desc PN QTY Price
Flywheel bolt 3170524 6 $ 7.70
Pressure Plate Bolt 6035626 6 $ 6.02
Bellhousing Bolt 6503299 9 $ 7.70
Pilot bearing $31.27
He also told me that the same part number was listed for all bellhousing bolts, which I don't think is the case.
Does anyone have the specs for these bolts?
Is there a place I can look the info up? For example, there are GM and BMW parts catalogs online from 3rd party sources, which let me look up parts and descriptions... anything like that out there for Chrysler/Jeep?
Did the bellhousing bolts change between '91 and '00? My block uses 3/8" bolts at the top locations and 7/16" bolts at the side locations, which obviously would not carry the same part number.
Edit: Grrr... Why don't code tags use a fixed width font on this forum?
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Bolts are taken care of... CarQuest had a Mr. Gasket kit for the flywheel and clutch bolts. I'll just use hardware store bolts for the bellhousing.
They also make a Permadry timing cover gasket that works better than anything else out there. The metal reinforcement keeps the bolts from squeezing out the rubber, keeping a more even tightness across the whole gasket surface. Unfortunately you need a late '87 to '90 258 head or a 4.0 head to have the right bolt pattern to use the Permadry valve cover gasket.
Did you mean valve cover or timing cover?
Is TCS45117 the correct number for the Permadry timing cover gasket? The description says that it must be used with OS34408R.
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Still haven't taken any pics of the 4.0, but got the front diff bead blasted and painted this weekend, along with the engine/diff mount brackets. The pinion snout bracket will need to be cut & welded to clear a rib on the side of the 4.0 block that isn't present on the 258 block.
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Most grind the rib on the block
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I'm fine with updating the bracket.
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Are there Perma-Dry gaskets for the diff covers?
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Engine:
(http://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-gOI8sAe58yI/UPIu-gc2x-I/AAAAAAAAAoI/wkA2xHFN9RM/s1024/100_1778.JPG)
Front diff, pre-bead blasting
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-rBHmQ2uV2X4/UPIv_4pzp6I/AAAAAAAAAoo/pKgNcu6MYvo/s1024/100_1768.JPG)
Bead blasted
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-wg34ATzOZ7I/UPIviARhR7I/AAAAAAAAAoY/2CFm6nhL_r4/s1024/100_1770.JPG)
Diff and brackets painted
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-Wf0UXekE_c8/UPIuuT2lBXI/AAAAAAAAAoA/Cs5ifwQ_8nQ/s1024/100_1779.JPG)
Comparison of Eagle and Jeep engine mount brackets.
Obviously, the Jeep brackets only mount the engine and don't have also to carry the front diff.
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-vu33xSYISSU/UPIwPsaH4wI/AAAAAAAAAo4/C1sTEhWaLEo/s1024/100_1781.JPG)
Comparison of Jeep and Eagle oil pickup tubes:
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-LvxBahowCTw/UPIvyO1XfhI/AAAAAAAAAog/EqAgpx_jD-U/s1024/100_1786.JPG)
Frustrating... The Eagle oil pump pickup is fully seated in the Jeep oil pump, but the hole in the securing strap does not line up.
Do I need an Eagle oil pump in addition to the pickup?
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-dzJNryz2GsU/UPIvGaYOFtI/AAAAAAAAAoQ/LGlGwvokCfo/s1024/100_1790.JPG)
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I would just notch the opening to fit the pump, although it looks like the pickup MAY have been bent to that position because I had zero trouble with this before except when I rolled the motor over onto the pickup before removing.
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It doesn't *LOOK* bent, and my dad says he was careful when removing it from the 258 pump...
BUT, the strap doesn't fit and it hits the pan when I try to drop the pan over it. The bottom of the pickup is 8 1/2" from the pan rail on the block and the pan itself is 8 3/8" deep.
I guess the only conclusion to draw--especially since no one else has had this problem--is that it got bent somehow... I guess I'll just bend it back until it works, but I won't be able to work on it again until this weekend.
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Per a recommendation on www.jeepstrokers.com I bought a Melling 81AS2 with the right part number for the application... I don't know what's going on, but it seems to fit. I haven't installed it yet, though.
Here are the new and previous next to each other:
(http://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-5Giq82qHMoA/UP7USNo1UaI/AAAAAAAAAto/epQJSLTeJlU/s800/100_1797.JPG)
You can see that with the ends of the tubes lined up, the attaching strap on the new one is shorter.
(http://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-UwZ0Xvb7G1U/UP7USIVSRqI/AAAAAAAAAtk/6BaBy0pAVok/s800/100_1798.JPG)
It's hard to see in the photo, but the previous strap has the same stiffening dimple pressed into it the same distance from the tube as the new one. The strap is welded to the tube at the same height. The previous just has about 1/4" more distance between the dimple and the hole. I have no idea why it's that way... but I have a way to move forward.
I have drill this weekend, but should be able to put it all together the weekend of the 2nd.
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Finally got the pickup installed:
(http://lh3.googleusercontent.com/--ucQLN7Xljg/UQ3NFO2hW1I/AAAAAAAAAww/GLTZnfXzbY4/s800/100_1824.JPG)
(http://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-8c3mIe3isJw/UQ3NDicL_kI/AAAAAAAAAwo/titD_ecSLqM/s800/100_1825.JPG)
Comparison of Jeep and Eagle pans. You can see that the Eagle sump is shorter front to back than the Jeep sump.
(http://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-_ReNazD0hIM/UQ3NAhrOdBI/AAAAAAAAAwg/7G0bRfwdGp4/s800/100_1828.JPG)
In this one, the light makes it easier to see the channel or trough in the Eagle pan that makes clearance for the passenger side axle tube from the D30 IFS diff.
(http://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-vCf8gI4qD7w/UQ3NHaouXrI/AAAAAAAAAw4/2i7wxlIM-D8/s800/100_1829.JPG)
In trying to actually INSTALL the pan, I hit yet another snag. The pan wouldn't sit flat on the block unless I pushed it out of position a bit fore or aft. I removed the drain plug to try to see what the pickup was hitting, and the pan dropped right into place... The protrusion of the drain plug into the pan was hitting the pickup. <sigh>
Has anyone else encountered that? Does the stock drain plug protrude any into the pan?
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So this is weird... This should be an OE Eagle pickup with an OE Eagle pan and AFAIK, an OE Eagle drain plug. Everything *should* go together perfectly.
I guess the Melling re-pro might not be dimensionally perfect.
I guess I might have some kind of aftermarket drain plug.
The "lip" at the edge of the pickup is pretty much immediately inside the drain plug hole in the pan. I'd have to cut the unthreaded "pilot" off the drain plug so that the end of the plug was flush with the inside of the boss on the pan in order for it to work.
If I bend the lip out of the way, then it should be deep enough that I only have to cut off about half the pilot in order for everything to clear.
Do I have a non-stock drainplug? The plug I have has about 1/2" of threaded length with an unthreaded pilot about 3/8" long.
Does the factory drain plug not have a threaded pilot? Should I get a plug without or cut the pilot off the one I have?
Should I just bend the pickup tube so that the drainplug I have screws in?
Thanks!
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I've been slowly oozing along with this, despite the fact that it should be a very simple build... just have other things going on.
Oil pan fully torqued
(http://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-Nx2yABiy7G8/UWweR-wLMGI/AAAAAAAAA3I/mQDxAiUV3O4/s800/100_1878.JPG)
Left engine mount bolt holes. The three unpainted ones are used by the Jeep bracket while the rear/painted hole is not. The Eagle bracket uses the two lower-in-photo holes (the engine is upside down, so those are actually the upper holes) as well as the painted hole, but does not use the upper-in photo hole.
The three unpainted holes are 3/8-16, while the painted hole is a loose 7/16-20, that was apparently drilled with a larger than standard tap drill. Neither 1/2-20 nor 12x1.25mm will thread in. I'll drill it out, tap it for 1/2-20 and install some 1/2-20 to 3/8-16 bushings that McMaster car has.
(http://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-mPqmGKZn_Rs/UWweR6xkpBI/AAAAAAAAA28/vDHHLRQD4g8/s800/100_1879.JPG)
Mods to Eagle engine mount bracket necessary to bolt it to the 4.0 block. Only the through-thickness cutout is necessary. The partial depth gouge is not necessary.
(http://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-ISScwRzLu1Q/UWweRx7Ek4I/AAAAAAAAA3A/goYEFRqICj8/s800/100_1884.JPG)
(http://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-8jDVRBQzIL8/UWweSaJnABI/AAAAAAAAA3M/q-rfb71EJg8/s800/100_1887.JPG)
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I didn't have that problem putting the 4.0L in my Jtruck which uses the same mounts (less the axle hanger)
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I'm assuming at some point in the history of this block, someone drilled that hole out for an inexplicable reason. I can't see why ChryCo would have made it that way.
Just another thing to fix...
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Got the aftermarket shock brackets welded to the Dana 44 axle last week.
I drilled and tapped the oddball hole and installed the 3/8-16 x 1/2-20 bushing last night. I left it torqued overnight so the red loctite could cure.
Now I've run into my first *REAL* parts incompatibility problem.
The passenger side mounting point for the disconnect ("disco") front diff assembly is approximately 1" further from the axle centerline than the same point on the non-disco axle.
My 3.54 front diff is a disco axle, while my bracket is from a non-disco axle. With my diff bolted up to the driver's side bracket which is bolted to the block, and my passenger side bracket bolted to the diff, the holes in the bracket and the holes in the block are off by about an inch.
So I need either to find a 6 cylinder disco bracket or to section my current bracket to work with the disco axle.
Anybody have one?
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(http://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-KbAUgegI2HA/UXn2y2ehbSI/AAAAAAAAA5I/kcPrIoct4Ng/s800/100_2101.JPG)
(http://lh4.googleusercontent.com/--qz0zK_BOlE/UXn23cJ5EOI/AAAAAAAAA5c/_cU_A2LCNHs/s800/100_2103.JPG)
(http://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-mk1e8xy-vxc/UXn216qTopI/AAAAAAAAA5U/BAdJnSAIJb4/s800/100_2114.JPG)
(http://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-Ckrg8K1feRc/UXn3AsqKjEI/AAAAAAAAA5k/n1waXKM785c/s800/100_2119.JPG)
(http://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-FJx4fAxkPSk/UXn3D1pGkTI/AAAAAAAAA5w/fzXHQKisY-E/s800/100_2120.JPG)
(http://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-vezTAgx6dcU/UXn3INgzyMI/AAAAAAAAA54/Cw1Zy3Hw8EU/s800/100_2121.JPG)
(http://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-c5wMTZLLypw/UXn3JPrSVKI/AAAAAAAAA58/kQhz_AzNdiw/s800/100_2123.JPG)
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I have modified the strap bracket for the diff snout mounting to clear the rib on the side of the block.
With that, I could snug the bolts on 2 out of 3 brackets, which gave me good enough confidence in the position/orientation of the diff assembly that I could modify the non-disco bracket to work with the disco housing.
I cut the bracket down until it fit and drilled 1/8" pilot holes where the mounting bolt will have to go through.
Unfortunately, I cut the bracket down too far. Drilling the 1/8" holes out to 15/32" for clearance on a 7/16" bolt would overlap the edge of the bracket. The bracket is with a welder where my dad works to have a couple of heavy beads laid on the ends of those edges in order to give me enough material to drill through without breaking out the edge.
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Finally got a coat of paint on the main brackets after the last round of mods. Since those were done, I bolted up the diff and turned the engine upright to get a better look at what the diff snout bracket will have to do to avoid the exhaust manifold..
Right bracket:
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-Zc1uHMn4hgk/UlbIrKEWI8I/AAAAAAAABTU/Cijs9X0_FGQ/s800/100_2308.JPG)
Left brackets and exhaust manifold:
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-e_nbD2jbfUM/UlbIrJmz7yI/AAAAAAAABTQ/gOLKXf_OvEw/s800/100_2310.JPG)
Another view:
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-cqar1jfhXTo/UlbIrU_9oHI/AAAAAAAABTc/XIcs83MqC4U/s800/100_2311.JPG)
Looking up the manifold outlet at the interference with the diff snout bracket:
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-CVDDEeDZ8vA/UlbIrlm6ibI/AAAAAAAABTg/Td44_Nuw3_U/s800/100_2316.JPG)
And I finally popped the cover off the diff... looks like it had some water in it. I'm not sure how that happened, as it's been sealed the entire time I've had it.
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-CitKXff6AIc/UlbIrzNPT9I/AAAAAAAABTY/6AE_iGe_zkw/s800/100_2317.JPG)
I guess I'll learn how to rebuild a Dana 30.
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Ouch, sorry about the front axle. Maybe they can be cleaned up. Does that say 46-18 on the ring gear, meaning a 2.55 ratio? I've heard of a 2.54 ratio which I believe is 43-17 but never seen one.
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Yeah, it's ugly. I may just buy another one anyway, since there are a couple listed in the surrounding states.
It's 46-13 or 3.54
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Finally got around to snagging a Jeep exhaust pipe to test fit... it looks like it could work. The fit is snug to the diff U-joint, and quite tight to the new diff snout bracket I'm building, but looks like it will work.
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-_cPEL_OtVcA/U0CV2kUPZzI/AAAAAAAAB9M/R4lnyvCVYXo/s800/100_2520.JPG)
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-3CCoBQTwaw8/U0CVympKy9I/AAAAAAAAB9A/gg450v1bXkk/s800/100_2521.JPG)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-rQBdKw6SRK8/U0CV2UCBEPI/AAAAAAAAB9Q/0k_shh08VyU/s800/100_2522.JPG)
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-GklgnatyWAU/U0CV5e4cbFI/AAAAAAAAB9Y/TuOsl8K1cYk/s800/100_2524.JPG)
Exhaust routing in a stock Eagle for comparison:
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-BOBHznEbxX4/U0CV-qhp8fI/AAAAAAAAB9k/jOK6rP7x-go/s800/100_2528.JPG)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-UEIG02dnAgU/U0CV-sGkl8I/AAAAAAAAB9o/BWk6znuThdE/s800/100_2529.JPG)
Both setups sneak over to the right side of the powertrain by going under/behind the bellhousing.
Eagle and Jeep exhaust pipes next to each other for comparison:
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-MLbKf9bbf5E/U0CWCbXvmaI/AAAAAAAAB9w/s-BUbwCwVDU/s800/100_2540.JPG)
I'll put the bracket together like this, then gusset it heavily on the forward side and lightly on the rear side to stay clear of the exhaust pipe.
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-6oHFw4MXlTs/U0CWEkCHc5I/AAAAAAAAB94/8eCNK1iNd-k/s800/100_2542.JPG)
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(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-mFKIohJRxR0/U1U89QnFU9I/AAAAAAAACB8/u_rrL8dOXis/s800/20140420_105949.jpg)
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-cuRvUF8B_vw/U1U8syiZgNI/AAAAAAAACAo/R6sf90xIHEU/s800/20140420_134933.jpg)
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-lwXWcg8Fh3o/U1U8rbNiVQI/AAAAAAAACAg/MoKnzhhgDMw/s800/20140420_163727.jpg)
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You need to add an angle for strength
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Absolutely... it will be heavily gusseted. This is only an intermediate step.
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I have to be honest, I've been following this thread for a very LONG time now trying to follow the warnings about what all I can expect to encounter with the 4.7L swap but wtf is going on with that bracket? I have never seen this on a Cherokee, Commanche, Wrangler, Wagoneer or anything. It's just a weird support bracket that hangs off the Eagle's Dana 30. Does this make the Eagle 258 or Dana 30 unique just because of this support bracket? Is there an effortless way to work around this? I'm going to do some dry fitting in the morning and I hope I don't have this issue since my 4.0L block is an early model from an 89 Cherokee but I get the feeling this is going to be a big deal anyway. :-\
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The mounting boss on the 4.2 block, where the bracket bolts on, should also be on your 4.o block. You may have to drill and tap the hole, though, in order to bolt the bracket on.
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I have to be honest, I've been following this thread for a very LONG time now trying to follow the warnings about what all I can expect to encounter with the 4.7L swap but wtf is going on with that bracket? I have never seen this on a Cherokee, Commanche, Wrangler, Wagoneer or anything. It's just a weird support bracket that hangs off the Eagle's Dana 30. Does this make the Eagle 258 or Dana 30 unique just because of this support bracket? Is there an effortless way to work around this? I'm going to do some dry fitting in the morning and I hope I don't have this issue since my 4.0L block is an early model from an 89 Cherokee but I get the feeling this is going to be a big deal anyway. :-\
The Eagles use Dana 30 IFS, which bolts to the engine block via brackets.
Other Jeeps use solid front axles, which do not bolt to the engine block. That's why you don't see the same brackets on a Jeep.
There are ribs on the 4.0 block that prevent the Eagle bracket from bolting up. The mounting holes are there, and were tapped in my block. Many people grind the ribs down. I chose not to.
I modified the Eagle bracket to clear the ribs.
I found that the Jeep exhaust manifold put the pipe in a place such that it would interfere with the bracket.
Faced with the option of modifying the manifold AND making a custom exhaust pipe OR making the bracket from scratch that would clear the unmodified Jeep exhaust manifold and pipe, I chose to build the bracket from scratch.
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I have to be honest, I've been following this thread for a very LONG time now trying to follow the warnings about what all I can expect to encounter with the 4.7L swap but wtf is going on with that bracket? I have never seen this on a Cherokee, Commanche, Wrangler, Wagoneer or anything. It's just a weird support bracket that hangs off the Eagle's Dana 30. Does this make the Eagle 258 or Dana 30 unique just because of this support bracket? Is there an effortless way to work around this? I'm going to do some dry fitting in the morning and I hope I don't have this issue since my 4.0L block is an early model from an 89 Cherokee but I get the feeling this is going to be a big deal anyway. :-\
AMC was very clever. While they couldn't do the completely isolated front suspension like they did in the Pacer, hanging the front differential from the engine instead of the unibody reduces noise and vibration. It also means that the front drive shaft doesn't move up and down so clearances could be tight even as the engine flexes on its mounts. I'm surprised they didn't continue to use the isocalmp pads on the Eagle rear springs.
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I'm GLAD they didn't use that rubbish design! Once they get a year or so old in rusty areas, they start twisting and break loose from the leaf springs. Even worse offroad.
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Interesting question. Does a Dana 44 IFS exist on ordinary junkyard Jeeps and if so, will it bolt up to an Eagle that is equipped with the 4.0L block?
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Interesting question. Does a Dana 44 IFS exist on ordinary junkyard Jeeps and if so, will it bolt up to an Eagle that is equipped with the 4.0L block?
As far as I know, there is no such thing as a Jeep front IFS Dana44 or any IFS Dana 44 besides the Ford TTB. GM used a 7.25 front IFS on Syclones and Typhoons with lots of horsepower and the internal dimensions are almost exactly the same as the Dana 30. I would keep the Dana and spend money on stronger custom half shafts.
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Yeah after looking over my options I'm starting to think the best course of action is to rebuild my spare Dana 30, keep the 2.73 gearing for now, stuff a locker in it and then bolt it up. All the experimental stuff will have to wait until I get this thing running again.
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The only Jeep IFS D44 I know of is ancient. '65 pickups and Wagoneers. It was too fussy so they dropped it.
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The only Jeep IFS D44 I know of is ancient. '65 pickups and Wagoneers. It was too fussy so they dropped it.
Aha! So it DID exist at one point! Huzzah! (*･ω･)ﾉ
At the very least it MIGHT become an option granted I ever see an old Wagoneer in my life time. I mean, of course I will, there are a few in town but none in the picking yards anymore. I'm starting to think I should visit South Portland (http://row52.com/Vehicle/Index/1J4GS5879KP107575) for the first time in years but I'm not sure a full tank of gas is worth the trouble to check out ONE vehicle that has probably been all vultured apart by now. :-\
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Some C4 Corvettes and all(?) Dodge Vipers use a D44 center set up for IRS. That unit may be adaptable to the front of an Eagle.
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Old Jaguars used a D44 variation, and bolted it to their rear suspension cage via 4 bolts into a flat pad on the top of the differential housing.
It would be relatively straight forward to make mounting brackets to bolt to that pad and thus hand a Jaguar diff from the side of a 4.0 (or 4.7)
Photos:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/390861240794
http://www.ebay.com/itm/151258008342
http://www.ebay.com/itm/191196351985
I'm not sure if the Jaguar housings can accept standard D44 gears or any aftermarket components like lockers.
Also: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jaguar_independent_rear_suspension
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The initial iteration of the bracket had the gussets welded on... but then got LOST (ie, accidentally thrown out by the cleaning lady :-x :-o )
So I had to build a new one. It's basically done except for blast/paint, but it will get a little more gusseting on the forward side.
(http://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-Iw3Tpmr5P5g/VACzkwvprHI/AAAAAAAACqE/BedYHB8Hcqs/s800/102_2814.JPG)
So now that that's in it's final stages, I'm starting to build a Bill of Materials for overhauling the diff.
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Yeah after looking over my options I'm starting to think the best course of action is to rebuild my spare Dana 30, keep the 2.73 gearing for now, stuff a locker in it and then bolt it up. All the experimental stuff will have to wait until I get this thing running again.
Try www.car-parts.com and look for a 3.06 from a 258 Eagle with towing package... I understand not everyone wants 3.54's, especially if they're keeping automatics, but 2.73 is a pretty wimpy gear--just not as wimpy as 2.35!
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I just ordered a fuel tank for my son's Comanche in Canada from carparts.com
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My dad and uncle snagged a '70's GMC Motorhome (aka "Trans-Mode") for *FREE* a while back--it was sitting at my uncle's brother-in-law's house.
It uses the longitudinal FWD TH425 tranasaxle with an Olds 455 engine.
My dad wants to put a Duramax in it.
To that end, he bought a '66(?) TH425 with the "switch pitch" converter, expecting that he'd be able to use the hydraulic control for the switch pitch to operate a lockup converter. I looked that unit over today... It looks VERY similar in concept to the Eagle Dana 30.
The diff for this unit is
A) HUGE - designed for big block torque behind Cadillac 500's and Oldsmobile 455's.
B) Set up for independent suspension almost identically to the Dana 30 at the front of an Eagle.
C) Very narrow across the output flanges, with the pumpkin itself being very narrow left-right, in order to fit between the frame rails of the Olds and Caddy bodies of the day.
IOW, it's the ideal diff architecture to swap into the front end of an Eagle.
Stock ratios included 2.73, 3.07 and 3.21, but there are aftermarket 3.54's available... :-D
I'm going to finish up the D30 and get the car on the road, but this option makes WAY more sense than trying to adapt the Jaguar Dana 44 to the front of an Eagle.
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My dad and uncle snagged a '70's GMC Motorhome (aka "Trans-Mode") for *FREE* a while back--it was sitting at my uncle's brother-in-law's house.
It uses the longitudinal FWD TH425 tranasaxle with an Olds 455 engine.
My dad wants to put a Duramax in it.
To that end, he bought a '66(?) TH425 with the "switch pitch" converter, expecting that he'd be able to use the hydraulic control for the switch pitch to operate a lockup converter. I looked that unit over today... It looks VERY similar in concept to the Eagle Dana 30.
The diff for this unit is
A) HUGE - designed for big block torque behind Cadillac 500's and Oldsmobile 455's.
B) Set up for independent suspension almost identically to the Dana 30 at the front of an Eagle.
C) Very narrow across the output flanges, with the pumpkin itself being very narrow left-right, in order to fit between the frame rails of the Olds and Caddy bodies of the day.
IOW, it's the ideal diff architecture to swap into the front end of an Eagle.
Stock ratios included 2.73, 3.07 and 3.21, but there are aftermarket 3.54's available... :-D
I'm going to finish up the D30 and get the car on the road, but this option makes WAY more sense than trying to adapt the Jaguar Dana 44 to the front of an Eagle.
If I understand you correctly, you will be using the GM "third member" in your Eagle? Are you planning to use the transmission as well? I have had many a Cadillac ElDorado, and know that the third member is bolted to the trans, and not separate. I don't believe the third member can be divorced from the trans without a lot of fabricating.....Rich
(http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k13/rollguy/000_0004_2.jpg) (http://s84.photobucket.com/user/rollguy/media/000_0004_2.jpg.html)
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"Will be using" might be a strong term... More like "That looks like the most realistic of a set of far-fetched options".
I've seen photos of the transmission in the Fiero community before. Do you have a photo of one separated?
As long as the pinion bearings are in the pumpkin and not the transmission, then it *may* just be a matter of machining a block off plate to bolt to the pumpkin in place of the trans and hold an input shaft seal. I have no idea if there's a yoke on the market that would work or if I'd have to get Mark Williams or another outfit to make one custom for me.
Buuut... the intermediate axle, the brackets, the CV joints, the overall size and profile of the diff... all of that looks at first glance to be very compatible with the Eagle.
EDIT: This style of transmission uses a male spline on the trans and a female spline in the pinion. According to this: http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Archives/Archive-000001/HTML/20130314-2-104990-3.html The TH325 uses the same 27 spline interface as the yoke on a TH350 or Th700. The 425 may use the 32 spline interface... but being somewhat standardized makes it easier.
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"Will be using" might be a strong term... More like "That looks like the most realistic of a set of far-fetched options".
I've seen photos of the transmission in the Fiero community before. Do you have a photo of one separated?
As long as the pinion bearings are in the pumpkin and not the transmission, then it *may* just be a matter of machining a block off plate to bolt to the pumpkin in place of the trans and hold an input shaft seal. I have no idea if there's a yoke on the market that would work or if I'd have to get Mark Williams or another outfit to make one custom for me.
Buuut... the intermediate axle, the brackets, the CV joints, the overall size and profile of the diff... all of that looks at first glance to be very compatible with the Eagle.
EDIT: This style of transmission uses a male spline on the trans and a female spline in the pinion. According to this: http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Archives/Archive-000001/HTML/20130314-2-104990-3.html The TH325 uses the same 27 spline interface as the yoke on a TH350 or Th700. The 425 may use the 32 spline interface... but being somewhat standardized makes it easier.
Also not that it is a big deal, but the trans dipstick goes through the diff as well.
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I have had many a Cadillac ElDorado,
What didn't you own many of? ;D
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I had a FWD '85 Buick Riviera with a supercharged Buick 307 V8 (Canadian model before emission testing on the West Coast) and it had a TH325-4L O/D automatic that had issues (cost me $1500 to fix in parts alone when I worked in a trans shop) and it had a separate 10 bolt front diff with a CV coupler to the trans. We ended up modding the car to take a 455 I had kicking around and put the turbo motor in an '81 Pontiac Firebird (small body) till it blew, then swapped a 455 Pontiac SJ motor from a '74 Gran Prix in the Firebird.
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Also not that it is a big deal, but the trans dipstick goes through the diff as well.
I guess I didn't really say it, but I would be using the GM diff by itself... block off plate, input shaft seal, yoke and a driveshaft to my NP229.
Yes, custom brackets would be required, but I have the capabilities to make those without much trouble.
Does it share an oil supply with the transmission? IE, the dipstick in the diff checks the fluid level in both units? I see what looks like a dipstick tube on the photo you posted.
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I had a FWD '85 Buick Riviera with a supercharged Buick 307 V8 (Canadian model before emission testing on the West Coast) and it had a TH325-4L O/D automatic that had issues (cost me $1500 to fix in parts alone when I worked in a trans shop) and it had a separate 10 bolt front diff with a CV coupler to the trans. We ended up modding the car to take a 455 I had kicking around and put the turbo motor in an '81 Pontiac Firebird (small body) till it blew, then swapped a 455 Pontiac SJ motor from a '74 Gran Prix in the Firebird.
I've never heard anything good about the 325; it's a light/medium duty 4 speed, while the 425 is a heavy duty 3 speed... a TH400 folded in half.
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Also not that it is a big deal, but the trans dipstick goes through the diff as well.
I guess I didn't really say it, but I would be using the GM diff by itself... block off plate, input shaft seal, yoke and a driveshaft to my NP229.
Yes, custom brackets would be required, but I have the capabilities to make those without much trouble.
Does it share an oil supply with the transmission? IE, the dipstick in the diff checks the fluid level in both units? I see what looks like a dipstick tube on the photo you posted.
I believe the diff has a separate oil sump, and does not co-mingle it's lubricant with the trans. The dipstick is for the trans, but it goes through the diff into the trans sump. It probably won't be an issue for you because of the adapter plate and all that you are making.....Rich
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So I took the opportunity to play...
This is the diff from my dad's TH425 put up where it would go on my 4.0 (along with a piece of aluminum bar for some reference points). The upper left bolt on the TH425 diff should be 6" back and 4" down from the forward bolt attaching the aluminum to the block... at least as a starting point.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/Jl16750G9Nd4HBKDxcFodhmRkpMCjwJv8XW4GOypZCCiHirITViH2rgGXqkpniM8EcUe2Ivo-xpfyIk7OJgrmgM5bKDybZ_B9pWEl9ttObVnQ1e1c4H5JcOGoOpMXu80RINNs4GTHr7lpjLmnNlXl4rOp877BP8fERJlzgQx_P_3HiukNwRwsz06BajydAt8uX9O1-1r6rQ8YkfjZAaCjmGzqro3G5XRPL7ZQRu4e2vIsQzmUTTWtVGV9Dno7YVTeDXyDVlRHyOuVhhZc2YIVj-tYExCrH6DX3aax0JATiwttoQhSur_DlNmvN81A3koAIXfvFnxpIjb4bwihOarF6CschzNmtw_PCfn5LKWwytrhADSnTSGdC_PnNVErNSWspdLa8s5KPFuLtc_WviDja0Ik3mojBQ61IdEI9AGHXJaHV8qDdJJ1V8Smj3A1UWn7q4h3RiU-Zih0FFiB0mkUfYV4oyoPn7Kk_UnssqYFpFwLTZrzRieYzoyaX7LoafPK4yee5qDzrcTti9td_AT7HD_c72M5NPdH9HzR5DN_th7sY2-Ob_3nOcmfZwmbc1SNLpKShLA7gKutk70P7S_kjzhr_jSOOQ=w501-h667-no)
Here's the side of the diff at its point of closest approach to the oil pan:
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/_i0XHWw6__jKFsWDfWsky8z0hOcaijb-9lemjx6Q_a7RWDfIUBiZ78JW0-FZxwBx6EFu9qus2wzP4L3ppa2nhCrzTKHM4kk05WZVrs28SkwnWcE7OPXM6vbu7ZF3jrvvp0GI0Qsu26T5BfIeVRwOvCcKctuBN4yOnjuxJs3p_mU-BqW9IpkqkcudP4gFiTAB1-lU9cgO5aijdAvjogaa8pRjMC4Ux3l4N0pGjuOWTJRl08OMGupabaNy30vdrLxbELW1IRc_y5PjRt9-gdA-Xm2sxMsL5wdPYeyVmGTYqDA4SBsIN5EbSTEKkmoJENdsHjJO0TRXx_oMlHST6b0AX1dWNpfaTJaUTRs0Bqh_NSGZxf59hiQj2dPr7UxD7BujhQtJ2nhE-FVo8k6nZqjCjtzmyajNa_ckbXF_fvt2g552xIM33tmxwlhzLYDD1n1WkSVO5dDfuNtlQV3O9p9sk3XyQWbjd8-RXveLJ-qxZd2Z39WLhQJvH6aWWI-xYZSxGG8Mi8XH-FhFWOn-AuAJ_lMl3-Wl2g7W1gxwMpSraO3RJ6QZFkzICddJ1Megji9rPhn6-F0lBNAep6tf9n8W7BMUBg04K0s=w890-h667-no)
Some extra views:
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/b-5je-KItjE4SUpvBD7AUGZKOB5BdOxXOoImpwsbFH_l-ibnvULsa72n6vBww_9ka9owI9i7VNrcBvHJ-yVxjRwfiHJn9IiKUjyNdx_TEYCLC1KjRuKvDO95CbI_8NK1NbjknAgxRuoVh6EHzXo24GYsf1On8s2SwUDXHno50r0slEkBCUWhNqgnQ1jvGA09-NYbqcpotq_omKi89Ra7Dgzogh9DbUIEI7HYkpFFwL3HXKBOGML2cjI-YPHwf-tC5PGaUVlNThSyhbNUWUAIKUVjVnYGIyEDqDOBPRdUAJ-ZjAM_vVb-8DO_yD7iEh1E9WQQo6wOcBxs6C2l6kigHuy-JoMUOh6Ym_ZIHLGyBRq-Bd5xHDIU1XPafv3mj9A9EwffIAhQfMvtqGRWhok8hhhye99ecfu-Xq28FhH5yoHpaNA_KlRojUOSq3EryYI7sxBDKtLUh1BcMqmjcHv7DMu-giWyN4vPL36DDLF0zrV9XlWuwJbNvEmM30iVo_deM9RlQB5ueEsiDfruCLJe-VeXKA-siyXiSVQtoJFw0EvSZ9-oBzlNza5czsMosaJ1VEDTCBQonKvfq7diEFGa_V8V9oHa-io=w501-h667-no)
The axle relative to the oil pan:
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/JcDCoRkutlt09GrlLqAWhD4OMONy5nfRfwQ9Qyg_yQSyLcmwW8xcNvEyY5PlT1vZy2IN98cccjATvYC8RgmWNxc6QrjMfyp9N9B8wXKsVd5S8RlVQrolOxDTc8_BX3YZ7Q4DVDdF437dT3RGaG-l7_gHWt3ggP6GEkAyqiWZWIn8-Ikp0SifmQNH3u2s6xxSCGBoy9wXfPTs8uBpW8b8qozrzmr346PJfdkUTAkbhDomCFeS8YzpsvBfhLZXqobNxtQVpDMtbvq7v-QUAWELF5Ni0UTQy3wSBEVWGj2hhxDVMpuuY0RRdezGYJya2Mw3SnCbliKj8ZzTbaR2CflGTq4HBUbNWzYFC7YzlTSKUO68dPuHawtTnNIhhgRsrBAOO7cWx3uL-Nlnv7GVeB1nUv8NHfjvGqhhRPdmQS6Lpgt3F2Bxk98k0kuyKTKoJItpEwc8IhKaagHAnSHhn9zYdRN0hu-kGRkUy22uf9asJ7i8BKYjwri2cWpVnce6cwuwVTEYfs_H6gG8UrxjGJ-rvwLNCpfKyG6XM1xMQ6MNZsCn9VUQRwttI0zTvNZPHJNr9lNunsYmC3aIToxDkL_QtZ7pSE-fuq0=w501-h667-no)
The right side axle bracket:
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/nQQQvocIRC8iuETNSayvgLYNlkNVnBttRvDn2QaXP3bJO-U3DUFL4A9B0fN4A11j0ZLenpf6Ef_mS9zCEx7VPfAYElAYTXcMwol_u9xFf5Vkpn1Bwlaw9K3uO8iqeB5wRcE0INNba8oioXL-0nAZvDMABf9rYzctlsMWFoaJva24vZKD3V8Rh4bTzDyet4ztrpIx7Azad3uq1tn3Bfto4yfrfKG46vwm2iwhzZHiVeH3BWJmGjucB-hSTXrQ2wJ6i_0YSWB69i4L5OupRAe71pxlW511lnTMEBXkrX-DtWEKKHC8w7IWaEgOuPMlwljUbN1TnBj_STDltuyz-2BE4WHr9G7u-tzO8-kYkfLpRh1sT0z-4fCaLMLO5NnVL0FaUbDZj8hu3af4aVuH3UmBFZ6s8aJ__zNeZWMu-Eart5rC_EitaVci-oVeacnkIORlGSw_-o25HpZVEAcv51NqbyO_y2dugJ_l2NrMAfCU9GbbsDxBGPHe0d6SMqPKN771kYWwe8utyjEIXGRJgt3QyX70cEsSuaQ4NY-ER-EjPiJj9Renzyv-mA6oqRYw13be8UR0z8071e60sETe9ORYKkrub-1m4OI=w501-h667-no)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/MyzCARRupRqK8TQd7XeBozDH3tcbg8J6Y73GPMz1WnrrRVIKphOx1eH2_2yS-spao9Tda3lYETNWo1X6GJBpjrTdEgxEfWqvczavTW97nJrLaHKUeJ85qBzzK_hYwJOAYi-I02a4En6l5AzTMwiKOFem66AGUaAd1OElKTD3n9qxlkrN9yTBC0wUxTovTxwoLO95FBQ0iRTjuThjw8P5_DIlah5eYWRE-U-gagZM4hFJ-Dt04f2WZ3qCOhExtr8td1mNo0mA-ocQQXVUQ-DA06-6I8Tra-3ukcUTntsQPXO3c2aoeKK3c0YUu1fPp70CSPpMUCwgTAiDuM1mvwKE-IwkoeUMkuO9me65rSKP3cL0Q1eJnPwjP32ha7CCbdI0iDQKUwmmizv7UjO1tFCLeEqLhWkRKmNBc48a5R-Kkfs5VDSlG9WDIlIhzSmIQrBhTkUa_95eDkYQ0r_Zyh8hTOrfAo3nE1GFN6nY_M1WnghpweXdvbiFhTcs-ImX0QPrqmAguGllhrPqVUAvd-MhUMuv54MXKwSbmpkcyEA6C5-qANqJ1Qjth4ddP49sX_RfQKh9oYHJfsCiQZS9Ri_2d7Z6w5N1n4s=w501-h667-no)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/b5zsv6hUvBSiZs9giscJv8mugLLxrxfa4cV-_rDMsAvHsGIGurRy1cU9RcC7ZoXVr83vtR08x_5Tao9WPETjhLRMfGby-d1n7zRfRxUVMMJZ0qp2soHmIK6BHzKbqdubtnn6iyUc4HUWL1uarfhZkjLmbmG4MlkF1QT73hjXOO2d0UxanuxSae8ONebfTHPAb1UplXzEQTNT9nexh6hybEnY-yeFWasBIKHIa4EMN2FzTbXiNr94i3aDxqRxp9Fs27pcJKtJkZCI0q88lWKl0JEq6NxDihOtsFLuHcNaf-BX0JHssDmMFO6W6U7JVEz3d_P6oWytLWUP2_wcM7_s271tRyPPDby_3etHeNiGe0ToOeh4Cji-JywDRuCoiwlv9IQrilvXdxxUzqOdDcm5WJJt4m89TgL-uNWkTGzkSvws9lo1uQAgLCbpfQkT71e_eE6Tv6t582xFUkx6oECaVR0lC7dTRBqX-O40esz13-cgxfGCXGZ2kla3gEfZDL_Py2F14zp60XBgwkcIRRNIPe6f7rkFjlF8WpGzcIA-VrUrCwf5l94Lm_5JAQAK-kNN1HWSqqvdrIspgldtg5jnfeCgIQCDy5o=w501-h667-no)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/xJVzQ1HtxMiV02stsFHj52Ux9OAXNUNJi8c62NzQj--zOP68Z8ApRePZ0CO7WorajUq1XYdyvljL7IyvLVHu5lyj8LUNEln9M61E2hPF39CyJ-YDZ3pCLCGQjHBPBlyNDevy8OCgj7SD91arExji5D73KCdf-5CQ4hgAqwniMjosx7c5CMeXIY9sFIqjVD15hGFYNTzQm4cMIxpLwFVwtoq9q1Vg8JgTbnr9Z9u6mivHBosKYLZNtEp2mLwz4Lz7_aY8px0SLIvMnNU80YojEoWPhozQzF4oH9a0izD1vbakP4zU_yamSmoF_sunV-NZKBf2p2slV0giHPS8KcUmCPES5Vq0FHOrO4qC7SVbwhHxCVH6zkiqK9U6zG28W-NxXw0Z-a81u-kEOKEuqBDc5fInZnJON3htolI0RnZ6WWjgddWA7T5zHGhO5Doocb7ZmtNukqx2zIOraj2wwcoqfB9peFpN0kSnvp-Z2dQ6cU9A8SN4wS4wf_fv_fsmIDgNVg9rME__IgdkEL7FoJ0oYEmJM_aVGlrXDXyBdf6nSqQJOiFFhc3qtBVIqhUpFv_N40hbBBZgqEUEyNkbUk89koLbBw0LdpA=w501-h667-no)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/T1XE8v2H1lmzm7vifUttXti2f-wf4aPoNaDeHc-Eurz2K2jGEIEgFZ1OPOwWaqjECY6pY6dkDcfs41Ohe3ml8L2uirJ3QA4c0A21zBSptWJUaTGYR9ys4SV8k1UGjbIssKeh8wVUEhRIfLVuVEwK4QAgZjLngea7zmBpf_OTI6uiGt0IP4j2WYiVggASxx0_IhnJZTkwljxRB4bsi2TAzehQl_GEVsWmm9saftZcXOJXs2YHY0u9_mOXS-WPZTx-McFtENuRG0O77-ToyYKNHR-YqjvQmUio9Tdiw-CBU4b6J2PKo4jmK2Khjpeg5kVRcr5eSEhB8h6gPiV2yRzcMe6en3Pk52raWIKxxply-Qk2IKg_338oBWBC5qBPLa1t8y0ewfblGSWQtV-7e_Tyr1SED6I6NcqpMiybtvGFV8lhcRhzJ_rdwkRNrpDUMnHsC7DbMa8POzR65pw3TUAqNk7Sg_ICxysccaIzFXR-mikP3okhhq8uonDqbvX_TERUTCnX0gy-fYvHAEdl6-gmzRJ8Wxpq8D-Wz1v9sVXXeTEpwSszEYs9aQxC5TLLdOjFFgj31mM-3ApQ755S90rG2cu0rFFCPb0=w501-h667-no)
Here's the TH425 unit next to the Dana 30. The D30 is a 7.375 or so ring gear. I haven't seen a number of the TH425 unit, but given that it's used with Caddy 472's and 500's in 4000+# luxobarges and Olds 455's in 11,000# motor homes, it is *AT LEAST* a 10 inch ring gear. This makes it bigger than the 8.5" Dana 44 I have for the rear and definitely in the Dana 60/Ford Sterling/GM 14 bolt class of axles.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/B-OdBf84rRlHycmZ6w7dekQ7rRvBurKbMvjbc0vgkrIswoxoL__TAJT3My2mEaAqIoOoRELbY825Bdqe-kveKQiPoycg3iTBcqa-FmoEkIW6g3XJzAxuDYrx4BsApi5z-yp0KL6ubaSRt27Rp5Rcot-kskgnEpf70tyr5OLRw1fc4yrXyuDjqz5PzBjhfmyfSFTqDXXGYRLLWwIpQjf1P0aoTfuWAoQh_OhekgtrSjfltLi7QjLsciyj_MZiC-kny1F1x92jLM_0CnBiSlXF9AxV3Duw_nOmsbowE7n47m6dYO06vd6ZTAhskUFG73lODdbvkzJgqJLPn3u9U5FwDju_d7MzFaoUKer2dSBzPA7hDmrv45F_KBC_tK24_7LPn3rfgEnHJB80y3XszW68wSHwMyb4fKtlLfaJJtiu9fhz12V5PBMripWTCVOI_uHJKI6GABdEUMBk_N_12_IlGUjpotkVLe4GNVcpM_VpdggHuGIol25c9cqBohk9Rb-KPJ6VzKUYmFecCqPTPE0Wp-8JsaWtyhG2XtLdosGs5ph2ReRmDjqlMw_uhftw0aFQA6NoGDKKTE-rGIANL4YX6IszyCzV0qU=w890-h667-no)
The TH425 diff is actually *NARROWER* across the output flanges than the stock Dana 30:
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/XDwWkFEJz4cYvjrq9Lk-2jo86DXyjfSCqM9Z40mL3jO3cfEwocz7WVDk0wc3VlHQVHvAh9YI35MbSLIJKOVXr8plSyAry46Jc_OuW_cUrBMCbe-nVx6VBKi5KXSXMTPKMzYUhDeyJux3sxcjAK_D17KgoUw1VYJIrSNnO8xiEwb5vj_S7BfZP2V-WIsnFyzDuT_s7ZFMcFB72QLnmLJ2FtwHStW2CWWAvHJrQnyfYMav1LK_M96Qc6iAiMK8pwgvf0idNiW5HaFuy1f-WjM-6VtULt084fDzBQBS7NLhvLDbnud1xPyOhZ7VDKlC5VJ03OdxKjqKA7hY9bSU-k0B9UL7pao4QOv5HVvfs_OyHqpH6mH5z0KB4A_oUskZ7HVp5-_yh-vqLvrA5l8wNh5Y1iqRmDUeh7lZtvzy4p61uCIKaENBOwZi_AifDMqsHfeJLX0_-pMj2jmx7kZW5dFSzYfDws0XYdL1UJMXIukcGOfB6LzW7ENWfBvX2sG7oVdZg4JvvA3bOBFC1aW_nK7ffiwDdMzTSLmfrTUg-3Qfh8H8SzQdTZbySQrrmZLzHIHgHSCJrlAzG4cPpX8VKNeJj3JNvmLb6Z8=w890-h667-no)
Output flange size difference:
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/CfzD5bK4jspWgywJJm_bLfAAEWu6a0ViYMN_MLIQbOcZzYt2vEcyN5zuk_f6Eb5AmbGOSrwGqZIB4t-XwvtdGeKAVsgQztg6XXHrFW-lR0UFPfxfw0EJWuGaqv88Tfd-ZjroGYdPyU2nTjWaq3h-oSjEja-uraArEVmV31QyvaQae0e0XNUgLV4jymNdzQvkMMjuv7IX8MOWL20sZGZiCZZtj2XZA3EJ5lQE43Bs_avJ92ZTOwJPABGVNXm7yKtXmbL6npRCBnTZ-iE84THSpm-eUO6YDydmNk0nQYH25-JaPbSTs7OUJUvnrkpaz99fgGib36xm94O-Sh78puyPOyM80_3_0KnqpR7EBvst_DLKorUccuHHaRIksLN4dmQ_O2OzAN5GS2gRdSj2DdSNNe721gjjjLjtFvk5NANRqr4ilqxdq6hGXcA6BAn1wfN5kVNQD7ZHh1qachAn5eYty0If3-rXVRruq1gXwlmYvRMRtKAeSb_tGuajSHWLTA3nKStNZwnsYSLmHAuRpYD7y5_HPAigEq_K823nuCxsc_zvAlgRDAvAQpZnjZQSMO3_CR9aNslrwSBrKljNMCGMYhsmll7xTnI=w890-h667-no)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/NWUDZN2ADAOhaFCxRAU3wSU6Q1gVY21vKQx0mm53mQGxTETRVeU65oVo3BmBz2r_CodH8QmuCOVmZyGlnQOPAaDuyRMpKp81NBG_RhjDJTWtaG723AwU5x4FYAs8X4oMkB_e7EQ2H4KT9b6l-if10v5rhskqBlZqe7yFJNTAGrTNdw53SCaFhW2Ry8vZ75U6OW519RylBKwVd9KkgPgPoqg6158dIoGb-4zGerGN6OZGE2pQl9VSOxyLKEf34PcRLPvSjqh6eFocr2ffHBwO7cOAKUjM9lHrkRHdeYjZ4PqDJcvZGUGEBAvf2KLkC_52TKba91WXTq-nXerdl6Lj9LutRLvTn40BYSUDDcIzvLJgvy_9rS2mY1l6-FN-WhkaerBeeOZGAsgraVqRApo-y2UOkvVc6j0SKUOtkEif_W4kjxw0IH42N9JKfuX6aj74nF-wsAggtaOIDezaDaOeun-_UYjxkcpvzI-escL4CkPmQkU42PdOLuS_72QLvEDv_l-AUOvyn--emgahaPyQr--YCwhLw2Qyv3Dto8UR3CdZyMbJ7Y0MDnldClpEO2_8Q0u04RC0AZUaQQJA5HjkWpyZfx7stok=w501-h667-no)
The input to the TH425 diff is 1.415" or so and 33 splines... *NOT* 32 as I conjectured.
*Image links may be broken until Google Photos pulls its collective head out of its@$$.
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I believe the diff has a separate oil sump, and does not co-mingle it's lubricant with the trans. The dipstick is for the trans, but it goes through the diff into the trans sump. It probably won't be an issue for you because of the adapter plate and all that you are making.....Rich
Of course I completely forgot to take a photo of the input side of the unit, but it's sealed. It has its own input seal and everything. I don't even have to make a seal carrier or block off plate. I just have to cover up the pinion bearing adjuster.
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Is it worth the trouble? I've never heard of anyone breaking the front Dana 30.
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x2 on that. also whole crossmember will have to be modified, it also looks very heavy, not to mention kinda ugly:} good luck regardless! gz
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Is it worth the trouble? I've never heard of anyone breaking the front Dana 30.
Ever heard of anyone running an Atlas 4 speed and 42's with an Eagle D30? ;-)
Considering that a 3.54 for the TH425 diff is going to run me $1500, this is not a path to pursue lightly, so I'll probably have to break the D30 first.
x2 on that. also whole crossmember will have to be modified, it also looks very heavy, not to mention kinda ugly:} good luck regardless! gz
Of course it's heavy, there's a lot of steel in it. That's the whole idea!
The whole crossmember wouldn't need to be modified, just the part that interferes. ;-)
Big drawbacks: no locker available; geometry of the cover means that if I slide it over a rock I'm likely to get a fluid leak.
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Is it worth the trouble? I've never heard of anyone breaking the front Dana 30.
Ever heard of anyone running an Atlas 4 speed and 42's with an Eagle D30? ;-)
Considering that a 3.54 for the TH425 diff is going to run me $1500, this is not a path to pursue lightly, so I'll probably have to break the D30 first.
x2 on that. also whole crossmember will have to be modified, it also looks very heavy, not to mention kinda ugly:} good luck regardless! gz
Of course it's heavy, there's a lot of steel in it. That's the whole idea!
The whole crossmember wouldn't need to be modified, just the part that interferes. ;-)
Big drawbacks: no locker available; geometry of the cover means that if I slide it over a rock I'm likely to get a fluid leak.
I didn't realize you were going with 42's. I would look into what they are doing with some of the King Of Hammers trucks with IFS.
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I was mostly joking about that.
With the NV3550, NP229 and 3.54's, my crawl ratio will be 37:1... not bad for an Eagle. However, Dana 30's are not known for liking a lot of torque. If I go to a 241OR or Atlas, my low range will go to 4:1 or more, which will put my crawl ratio at 56.7:1, which is starting to get somewhat serious.
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With being stuck on the diff again, my dad and I went for the transfer case. I found a manual for the NP229 online here:
http://oljeep.com/np229/NP229_manual.pdf
and it was useful in making sure that we had things in order before bolting on the rear case half.
The thing the manual specifies that we need to do is shim the end play of the rear output, which is accomplished by shims under the tailshaft housing.
Here's the reason I needed to take the T-case apart:
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/rDHL8SMAiZaOwqXkMt2fAR2wTgCzeOyUa6HSlgkGEPYLH06b7w0fI7NMMw1meOXjTgZsMyOay5BetZRNy5prszoCY4svmBzMuigAuxre7dc4RfANXGiX7LlrHvHsvGK7W0l8m7LRdumfJ2ccWzo1E_zRaLqpfKGSuTPlF3xy4t3RPjXGjeIn0iLlldmD5vn6Li6ODfAcxVu-RstfZ3D9OkKQknT6VqpM4bmvAqn7iU3vlIBN3ZPHsLJNmJhuBz89DCAoFOBTxKroyaQQIijVgzVDGV5E9B-IEFBvt9v4b3xjR5SqSlyeIPdP9JCHgNkmjtR4oOWwpfPP5qDgRoogvqdsRRMQGzYStQmAYexBGZ__qCGd7wUjDxGMGknq49nRaXecRcDNLuojOgda17pDf06MBwzZ5WoDhS3w4WPOFK7GN6jIhh02sLreHDhqkZhv_3dLgnvyJXRoszOA1uH4eSGFSwp27JG_rjxVtw0YlcSnksgG3dx4aLuVrzc9QpCqJnwwZxvtayP0NzfbbyesKCaTwLhX7hJsv3zMJCxpbpm195nF6YjX_rqztwfyZGdDWX0DDEq0OhK1yK22jG2LTPqUkCZt0mM=w765-h1019-no)
This photo shows two things:
1. That we bored the cored hole for the low range shift rail
2. All 12 of the tail housing attaching bolt locations are incorporated into the casting
However, only 6 of the 12 are tapped in any given unit. The Wagoneer had the wrong six tapped. If I were to use the Wagoneer rear case half in the Eagle, the VSS/Speedo cable would hit the body.
So I need to use the Eagle case half and bore it for the low range shift rail OR use the Wagoneer case half and drill/tap the holes for the Eagle orientation of the tail shaft housing. Since my dad and I can use the Bridgeports where he works, we used the Eagle case half because it only involved one hole.
And here's the unit assembled except for the tailshaft housing bolts and the rear output yoke:
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/7WgJBFK4eHqo9Iw3RzZCtfnmpIN6NVFumOPaPJc-wqf87auVg3RqiTBaBsOsCFCbMFP6rlBoc2pKs2BExkaRM_PN-6qd8nrXSA2XM8092x__z0AYL-La1pumA4s_eABGHZ37smLwgzC4LkSM-3JF1s1ElvT0A_RIRylvn-gS2lvfDu8rc8l2l4JzbNPoGF8E4bQxw2TdG3uHkeo2D8uvGOdzT81vJBDlyAIYavOBjp7ohrJQYPfjETGhw_4UG1pABBPx9QWBhKWCibfoTuw-nhydOP6qPR2JpyjzBK7Rw4U4HA-mn-qU7JGAru0iRFtX9SGvIPpN0EXELYi0pmuwaPGZr2xTPBerDXb93OuNhS-CWtH9Pec1UIDTLArA20tRC7d3SXFuQh1eYWqTUjB6hXZnbjLqzSXWbAYl8hamumtGEVJmy2Lde-CjMTxZ6R8Sy10MDs-jBl7O7CJujJAEIK8CorV3PrXpUveHvauhJqFV0rysar0ByvFS7dIJD05-yzUzt6LtLuV9vextoVYypa03i2r9YuH095Vfx9hbRe3bxG-ntTJJGTkJTVfc-nHy5rOft4nF93HP2PcEJwtnBsZqKGNoJgw=w765-h1019-no)
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Good job. When I did the 229 swap, I had to drill and tap the 6 holes since I didn't have access to the proper equipment to take care of the one hole my 128.
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Yeah, if all you have is a drill press, you'd definitely have a better chance of success by drilling and tapping the cored holes on the 229 case half. You could even do one, then use the tailshaft housing as a drill guide for the rest.
I'm close to wrapping up the front diff overhaul here: http://forums.amceaglesden.com/index.php?topic=43409.0
So I pulled the D44 out of the shed and took it over to a local shop where my dad's known the proprietor for a couple of decades.
He let us use a great big blasting cabinet to clean the axle up.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/muEfcq6q9shVJQdMJIbBz1kUbMXGt2c8pK05ckEXmJOztLPdGAkHSOZ99NaI8DxCciXcBV9kfQX3gAI8VYuZpmievwHT2Pku479bNRldTFgSBrsOuW6vKPMGGsK3Xqt65WYCXiKDE-yXO-t_RZAP0ghjQxHAPa_PQhJNdkIbbkWs2wJF0A30gx3Wld8msZ4SVMC22RtAAO2zpCJ3TAOT-kcAsDOg2kobRwPPCm3lemKOwWpT0MV8zDCxd-9ipSdNNJrKlwSoE-l3-Z1Mg30TseA4-WXDxWJdAmduPkwnlkwwtltLoP09wXmFrHpYqurZAKsFEa0pC9iIhgQEBucPasFbdWT9vrsz98Ixouti9gb8zzJragO1K2LAkCQX6bttdI4A0PCX4k-OFx6Hq4ipafY21C4bzAmsmPKN3YFf3_5uRE3mg_QdJO1ibOzE-gYu8zEmEGZ3kKXaZy4lwyhf3m9AnEUorZA_UuRKI9KwJJ1KraAQXD2y9cHFR7rf0c8SPKAOgSnnS3i4awYff-wKrpgCAsCVoLhHmWUF2qkv7rgP06x097QaLmYzrTF1D6DpyMnwi9Ht0mfZtdAE6mhEGlvrXNPm_6I=w1359-h1019-no)
And then I dumped most of a can of gloss black epoxy spray paint from McMaster-Carr on it:
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/UcU3xY6gVU0S02tPQF5yl4vG6YFpw92v8iilE4QfICXHG2jQf8nLtTv4tOv3ZdjWEN0YCK-drlq3efsbTZHVrq-6XibyffdVZzZr2XtUWUihOwXui8IA6bNLGjajf6T3s0syN8pZTsj_-W2a9597L9zVLl936PDQicM0KQIvhGuLBlzK80mBEC03XTt0o0AzzHgyVXbjb6ORTTAh9kTCyDH5Vci7E0nE64cwVJbfUeDc_V7kb3fLmLQZF2aruL5xIv9WwphojQRvVZ9BtBwd4DE02exmuKib0gxZ9qjbhBd3gLpO95hyDiVSAEIuymNW6d3rd5SeDtXC0cRvFZpLccLnl0AbsBRE_iWcXK95jVxMZbEI2zJcXOEuA5vbtIKTnsvRnds5syt5bFk8SNmvnj_I__BLSfRhah3HSVcTNSMWO-W9GWk2k1DgHx26cJq4BLiDbWLKfSnswUrY_teen5RZBxrcV8nr-7GDSh6CR7TMDDOfRsh1OonudEqeYV9_uCpARqzpT7aG_qOLPbM-K73rCW3K6E_w7xzD2Upy2TLKb8FPkXoxEUak1PyXcQNcCjN4D8yzxXeMVtBqd6_TSsZXhMVpb50=w1359-h1019-no)
Since it's 90+ degrees out in VA today, it cured in a couple of hours.
Next up: disk brakes
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My current combo of NV3550 + NP 229 + 3.54 axles gives me a 37.0:1 crawl ratio
That's 4.01 first with 2.61 low for 10.46 at the driveshafts into 3.54 axles.
However, if I used an NSG370 with 4.46 first and 241OR with 4.0 low, I'd have 17.84 at the driveshafts and a 63.1:1 crawl ratio. That's getting reasonably serious... and it would *BOLT* *IN*.
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Separated the caliper brackets from the dust shields; somehow forgot to snap a "blasted" pic. I'll grab a "painted" pic in a couple of weeks after I get back from London. you can see the modded bolt patterns in both.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/q1kT9SzgfHgkRlxOmcxGOd_eFI8noEEEpBs3UcRO4EcKJLl4ZBbvn8PJWpH1iaJEscg0QHGgWnahEc35K3HwBe2vmAvmtNV6vV-exXltqSnkRGNka2sHkyzKPMmACYuVx5FoQNZ8N84KuVf3veWthG097FkBLZxHMkW-5NV5OFwwmZU72_LRV4D6ePMc87kX0CvegbI5XlhVRAczZCQowx_13FqQayK7LDEkiykBzFLN7u8vqZujEL9aa5BRs_GI2HTEWtjxrNe8UEOX1IbT0m1V6bBGVGkBbG1Dkl8LP8gARl9wuMhSn4BOt0hkzM0GyIxukR8G2MjjmsEE6sTXCRFc1-7c1s-bOideJcMM_WlgWEkM1K1SafG8yTuDix1myvfvoV3109GSl5pNFFRczqodL4RpQTR-EkZB8lwEkc8zISXQI9EsxFlcbcLEUgr_bP3r7UXSgmr8RE2t4pT_AQwACbmBNmedw25g776AJBhh4BQz6ctCxBzEzV9Cgmqu3h8eaWW-DAVrOKK48HSOhVlMhvfYqTLxVuu-jovkGurvT3xqgDBzx1QyldIM99AtnYkmkOpAVXDwiIWhdcBu_tBCWE39eKA=w890-h667-no)
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The original Dana 44 non-clip hub end component stack:
From left to right: backing collar (not sure why it's not touching the bearing...), bearing, seal, bearing retainer.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/Bp6G07XKZgEGw1VkyKqEmILT-RxmVRYkA-daMhttloMNhGxyrCQ9XTBNGaEtRgAYXfQgRvKAIo68HfFlpfejyo4nt624clgqPPm1ac7I-tp07q2KQOzEo1Q2EeI9tnc0XxnkOI57sPfhg6FuJ9JN4TBDddkSsMnY-xIqYvso8az1MbCTXrG7E7eL0Rj3SXUHHYpwW4yyIS0Goey8yJQcHM5pDw1iN_leLvLGV9Hn9UiZNnK9RMVt03XsPcOGUNIv4ffT1o-Rp-dGQ5csQPXhOkxT8hVDoOy8rIwz6GUVu9J60N0lLQaRC6_BzQqGqXcGQniGGu1wU2-gaju-iz1xYzdLDcG9T-NBuN9s19RcpEOr3ItNJE9dETMsMbYaG38RTDhSpt1-uSHXSnS0PDy8Y_MdUmY6aBbTgWsQFqEsN_zt-oSSFnEhx-4NfPF5QrZ8sWgJw6xcDCS1RVT5YubtIN6fCH7nVOflUn5NCFEVr_HK84spvlVY5fd2udo9qyE_MeK0BjaRvqFhgb6NTcLZGeBvKykf6txlIKaXpQO8nhs3gK6goV-g4A0NuBqU4RFyiVao9Q5aVnN6w-y41sJ-h_-1zn4DZ8Ekk9CU1UsvW0BQ_HKA=w765-h1019-no)
Modified stack: backing collar, new bearing, seal, spacer ring, bearing retainer
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/UkaBjjiw-gtdyBciH3XS4FUkVsqlua5OIYZ7roK-AnnjwyaSPU7mgB6yi6ZHwBc0CAVkdzsm4F9XjRd9Y5FjBnPz7Kv6NFlaiD47E3oHGzTm9qePVfpyRx0A1jFLA2q233CJnAVtksVGXZyQotuirfC-0SDBfb15jgabw8ttpb2DINhOhY9kCHAYzishY6Py2-0k2z8THX4kq7u5b70ncEwpabXXKaafStjtfvSeeOZQxbbTSJIAAuPejwQnv29uRD-TQ8b1Yfvl0tBRFjlqnTRZW7QcXj-Z9Tj65dEFZKqiPU9k9eKAwtFzTCoKSApsGoNPnp1dm17oLYL2RsWQz6YIZ54u3xxaQuTrC4lVzsm-em3proAV4MF4KqfKYlkmV8Vbn8ii63IhtiapBM80QhepkuBkq4l8cQ9X-q9uTwGgvJ4JRG46LtXsgBWaVDarwFqK6qGkkhN6TEoaJMSMLeagwHSqrBYqQuQAa-w4Vzwm4Euq0d17Z6cdMmh0koFbjTWfmaMMhiUFQ1PnucglGRCWsHGi6tR2tKO5HweFl_YHax0CGVAYdJ2VTpUvJJVuSNffdrxvbeIVQt0_0vNOuswTJ_bj9VDt_UrtgVdzStv6vDru=w765-h1019-no)
And the whole shebang installed, including brake caliper brackets and dust shields:
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/5UWoBwA--v-z1BzD_TNTwcT0TFb1Qbu9-gRWqb-sII4qs2GURiMX87azARmGDFKXQDCixE6Ol5RrliKJHF84PpAxfofsstgsqQxu02xz7SPSE7bgFWl4nuBd7K8SpPU6vXIyb02F6Kpy-psze3k0ysDYVMwGLDKIqxTTrb4dcVz8YEHsSQCYKPsHGU5j8-2Gz9JXPvKaJzhaPoxkUeA4Mch1Oc8tUJFBFqmRYzKGsKWwcFxnGUpYu9ysocSZIk2nq5_rOjfvUSnsNR3LaYpc55LywMmS4WN9wv1yWHgOmccR5k6XNQnAa-Jnai6SOtOOzPxCYdseMrD1MaiEqwbRL4sTRt5NKAchDzLW_kPoDPHyd8PwQyxxhsOXFhsZT0UN138_As3jetINcW81OPTRf1CsfEA4HZtRp2ehQfjHMSTiPsi9rNlieDvhK93vO5SzhwMsDnK5dhDt9Ku7mC3qIfb5j1HYjgQ8ZPt3nYRmsje8bgCnO3hU02PN7EIuJi0XM0ZWW8yP5Z78dKnPfN-0s3deCOX9O38AITksKILkbs_P0JZ8cUEyNZBi3gPcAkhvw-z0Ku9mUD2Id0K8-rWNeKGbB81XMuAKb-HXALjEkfFsZdGa=w765-h1019-no)
The left axle has pretty decent pitting on the seal surface and needs a speedy sleeve. If that hadn't been the case, I'd have put both together tonight.
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Installed a speedy sleeve on the other D44 axle. The sleeve went on until it bottomed, but was shorter than the sealing journal on the axle. As a consequence, the inner lip of the double lip seal is running on the old pitted surface. I guess I'll have to watch for fluid leaks.
I painted the flywheel. The clutch will rub off the paint it doesn't like and then when I (or some other unlucky SOB) pulls it apart in a few years, the flywheel won't be rusty.
CarQuest gave me Dorman 14557 for flywheel bolts, but this is WRONG. This package has 7/16-20 x 7/8" bolts. The real deal is 1/2-20 x 7/8". ARP has those, but I guess I can wait until Monday to find out if CarQuest can get them for me. The Dorman website does not list flywheel bolts for the Jeep application, so there was some kind of error in delivering this kit to me.
(https://i.imgur.com/PkC5P54.jpg)
I have also decided that I'd like to use an Eaton e-locker in the D44, and maybe a Detroit TrueTrac in the D30. I came back from Afghanistan a bit over a month ago, and will pursue those items when I get another job.
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ARP 1/2-20 x 7/8" bolts arrived... will probably get the flywheel and clutch installed on Friday.
Otherwise I'm SLOWLY getting everything together. I had to order some shims from McMaster to get the T-case output shaft end play correct. Those are in and the measurement looks good relative to spec. Spec is 0.003 to 0.012, with a target of .006. This ended up at 0.003, so I'm happy. Pulling a 0.005 shim would have resulted in 0.008, so whatev.
(https://i.imgur.com/zZvdrND.jpg?1)
Need to install the shaft seal in the tailshaft housing, then break out the anaerobic goo and do the final installation. I have a new rubber splined sealing washer to go on the end of the shaft, after which I can install the yoke and declare that the rear output is complete.
I have a seal for the front output... I should probably just pull the front yoke and install it, but it's not nearly as easy as the rear yoke. It'll be way harder in the car, so on the bench if the obvious place to do it.
I'm deciding whether or not I want to yank the stock vent fitting and tap it for a pipe fitting (and then to A/N plumbing?). It already rotates while installed, so the sealing of the fitting to the tailshaft housing is questionable at best.
I'm going to run all the vents from all four gearboxes (trans, T-case, front diff & rear axle) to the PCV system so that I can ford modest water crossings without worry. The road to a friend's house flooded more than I'm comfortable fording in a Fiero a few years back, so I want to be sure an event like that doesn't stop me again.
All Eagles (& a lot of Jeeps?) use a 36 tooth speedometer gear with 3.54 axle ratio. My dad found a guy who had one and bought it. I will probably use a DRAC or the JagsThatRun VSS adapter to provide a VSS signal to the ECU, while retaining the mechanical speedo, for now. I'd like to swap to an electronic speedometer eventually, but the Eagle instrument panel is really hard to remove, so that has to be more carefully considered.
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Found all the case half and tail housing bolts and torqued up the tail housing. The torque spec is 23 ftlbs. I used Loctite 518 anaerobic sealant.
(https://i.imgur.com/eDgLprA.jpg?1)
(https://i.imgur.com/sfMD0Ww.jpg?1)
The vent connection is loose. I'm not sure whether to try to seal it back up, or to pull it out and tap the hole for 1/8 NPT. I will plumb all of the vents (trans, T-case, front diff, rear axle) to the PCV system so that I don't get water inside those units if I ford a stream.
(https://i.imgur.com/3Ur7Klh.jpg?1)
At this point I just need to install a new sealing washer on the end of the output shaft and install the yoke. Then I need to pull the front yoke to replace the seal and sealing washer and it'll be all good.
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Had a fun time getting the transmission mated to the engine.
AMC engine to transmission dowels have limited availability. Dura-Bond AD148 is the only part I found that does the job. Summit carries them. I snagged a pair.
At first I couldn't get the engine & trans to fully mate. The contact spring in the slave cylinder was apparently enough, in conjunction with the mechanical advantage of the throw out fork and friction in the splines to prevent me from shaking the transmission on that last 1/2".
On a hunch I unbolted the slave... it went on easy peasy.
Now 556# as pictured.
(https://i.imgur.com/XEALJkV.jpg?1)
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I bolted up the modded NP 229 T-case:
(https://i.imgur.com/gJ5jNbC.jpg?1)
I *briefly* had a scare about having to pull it back off for repair because I couldn't shift it, but once I understood the force required on the linkage and the order in which the shifters had to operate, it worked fine.
The above doesn't show it, but it's on a leveler as well:
(https://i.imgur.com/chZtWRz.jpg?1)
~650# as pictured. By the time I add the diff, the alternator, the A/C compressor and the air compressor, the powertrain is going to be 800#, and that doesn't even include the rear axle!
I also installed the rear output yoke with a yoke seal (It's a factory fixed yoke):
(https://i.imgur.com/gKK4CHo.jpg?1)
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As noted previously in this thread, the diff snout bracket is the only part that needs to be made in order to do a 4.0 swap.
My initial takes on it ended up with very minimal clearance to the stock 4.0 manifold and stock Cherokee downpipe that I have.
I finally had a realization of a simple change I could make that would dramatically increase clearance to the downpipe.
Before:
(https://i.imgur.com/RmQmcFb.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/gjXZdFG.jpg)
During:
(https://i.imgur.com/RNR059I.jpg?1)
After:
(https://i.imgur.com/fURs3ZT.jpg?1)
Here's how it fits to the downpipe:
(https://i.imgur.com/zWkxnZH.jpg?1)
(https://i.imgur.com/P2cGvJs.jpg?1)
(https://i.imgur.com/e0KH3zs.jpg?1)
Here's how the downpipe fits around the engine and transmission:
(https://i.imgur.com/eOKydtS.jpg?1)
And how it clears the bellhousing:
(https://i.imgur.com/j3tzdao.jpg?1)